Rod Purchase Question

[Rusty_Shackelford]

Hello all, new to the forum and to fly fishing so I apologize if my questions need refinement, I am used to spin fishing and the gear has a whole different set of rules. I currently own an 8' 4wt Redington CT, if I wanted to go lighter would a 3wt be redundant? Where I live there are very few fly shops and none any closer than 1 hr so casting a large variety of weight, length, and material rods is very unlikely. I also have a 6'6" 3wt Featherlight glass rod but the blank feels quite heavy making it somewhat unpleasant. Since I'm still new to fly fishing I believe I'm going to continue most of this season with what I have to see what my 8' 4wt is really capable of and later on this season or even this winter get either a 2 or a 3wt outfit. For learning I believe I made the right choice with an 8' 4wt but I'm almost certain I'm going to want to go lighter and probably shorter as my ability progresses.

 

[Dave_W]

Hi Rusty,
Welcome to our online fly fishing (FFing) community.

Yes, a 3WT would be redundant.

You will get many opinions about FF rods for beginners. In recent years the trend has been toward longer and lighter rods. In my opinion, much of this has been unnecessary. I own dozens of FF rods and have fished for everything from tiny brook trout to tarpon for forty years and I have never owned a rod under 4WT (have tried 'em and don't like 'em).

Rods under 3WT and under 7' are novelties.
Beginners should stick with conventional stuff meaning - for the average stream trout fisherman - rods between 7-9' and 4 or 5 WT (I recommend 5).

Skip the 2 or 3 WT stuff and save your money for a bigger stick like a 7WT so that, if you really catch the FF bug, you will have a rod for steelhead and bass.

 

[redietz]

I also have a 6'6" 3wt Featherlight glass rod but the blank feels quite heavy making it somewhat unpleasant.

No 6'6" 3wt is going to be so heavy as to be unpleasant to cast. It may be so short as to be unpleasant to fish, however

 

[Swattie87]

redietz wrote:

I also have a 6'6" 3wt Featherlight glass rod but the blank feels quite heavy making it somewhat unpleasant.

No 6'6" 3wt is going to be so heavy as to be unpleasant to cast. It may be so short as to be unpleasant to fish, however

On that short of a rod, a slightly heavier blank may not be a bad thing actually. (Glass is heavier than graphite for a rod of a given length, so that's somewhat to be expected with your rod.) Once you start to talk rods shorter than about 7'6 or so, it can become difficult to find a reel light enough to balance them, so they don't feel heavy on the reel/butt end when you're casting them. I'd rather have a slightly heavier rod, than a lighter one that is butt heavy with the reel on it.

As far as the recommendation to the OP. DW is right. You have shorter, lighter rods covered fine. Look at a longer, heavier rod for your next purchase. My personal recommendation would be a 9'0, 6WT. This will cover bigger Trout streams nicely, and do reasonably well for warmwater fishing, if you choose to get into that. Fish the two shorter rods you already have for a year or two on smaller water. If you still feel you need another rod for fishing smaller streams, you'll have a better idea of what you want and will be able to make a better purchase at that point...My guess is you'll find you don't need another one though.

Edit: And unless you're into fishing really, really small streams, my guess is you'll find you fish the longer, heavier rod the most.

 

[Rusty_Shackelford]

Swattie87 wrote:

redietz wrote:

I also have a 6'6" 3wt Featherlight glass rod but the blank feels quite heavy making it somewhat unpleasant.

No 6'6" 3wt is going to be so heavy as to be unpleasant to cast. It may be so short as to be unpleasant to fish, however

On that short of a rod, a slightly heavier blank may not be a bad thing actually. (Glass is heavier than graphite for a rod of a given length, so that's somewhat to be expected with your rod.) Once you start to talk rods shorter than about 7'6 or so, it can become difficult to find a reel light enough to balance them, so they don't feel heavy on the reel/butt end when you're casting them. I'd rather have a slightly heavier rod, than a lighter one that is butt heavy with the reel on it.

As far as the recommendation to the OP. DW is right. You have shorter, lighter rods covered fine. Look at a longer, heavier rod for your next purchase. My personal recommendation would be a 9'0, 6WT. This will cover bigger Trout streams nicely, and do reasonably well for warmwater fishing, if you choose to get into that. Fish the two shorter rods you already have for a year or two on smaller water. If you still feel you need another rod for fishing smaller streams, you'll have a better idea of what you want and will be able to make a better purchase at that point...My guess is you'll find you don't need another one though.

Edit: And unless you're into fishing really, really small streams, my guess is you'll find you fish the longer, heavier rod the most.

When you say real small, what are you talking for an average width? I know small/large water means different things to different people. My favorite streams here where I fish average around 20-30' wide on average (East Koy & Wiscoy creeks). I have only been out a couple times and went to larger open areas, I'm just hoping I didn't go too long for the tighter conditions on these streams but like you said after a season of fishing I should know what I want/need. Thank you for the advice. I really only bought the glass rod because it was $25 and I figured it would help me decide if i like a shorter rod cheap. I just assumed the heavy weight was because of the very low price tag, it's tip heavy with my Orvis Battenkill on it but maybe all glass rods are like that.

 

[Swattie87]

20-30 ft wide would be on the border of small and medium in my mind. Your 8' 4wt should do well in that situation. Once you start talking streams 40 or 50 ft wide, or bigger though, you'll begin to quickly see the advantages of a longer, heavier rod.

Yeah, a Battenkill is a fairly light reel, and one of the common ones used on small stream rods for that reason. I could see a glass rod being a little tip heavy with one I suppose. They do well on graphite though. If you have room on the spool without the fly line getting bound up when you reel, try adding a little extra backing before the fly line...That extra weight on the reel end may help with the balance.

 

[tomgamber]

Once you learn to roll cast, you're going to like that glass. A lot of us fish water that is 20 to 30 at its very widest point if it ever gets that wide. Some of the smaller brook trout streams are less than 10 feet wide at most of the way. Probably has a lot to do with what's available to fish.

As for rods, its about what you're comfortable with. I know guys that like the longer rods on small streams for the reach. Others are good at casting and bad at walking and prefer to stay out of the trees. You'll get a ton of good suggestions. If they help great. If they don't seem right in practice, it doesn't mean you're doing it wrong. I see lot of guys go back and forth between techniques and hardware until they settle into a style of fishing they are successful with. Good luck and welcome.

 

[Rusty_Shackelford]

Swattie87 wrote:
20-30 ft wide would be on the border of small and medium in my mind. Your 8' 4wt should do well in that situation. Once you start talking streams 40 or 50 ft wide, or bigger though, you'll begin to quickly see the advantages of a longer, heavier rod.

Yeah, a Battenkill is a fairly light reel, and one of the common ones used on small stream rods for that reason. I could see a glass rod being a little tip heavy with one I suppose. They do well on graphite though. If you have room on the spool without the fly line getting bound up when you reel, try adding a little extra backing before the fly line...That extra weight on the reel end may help with the balance.

anything over 40' will be rare for me, i'm much more likely to go to smaller water than larger but at some point I'll likely be getting a 9' 6wt for such places and for larger streamers in smaller water. And the reel is completely full, no room for more backing, I could always use some lead core trolling line under the backing if I really wanted to add more weight tho.

 

[Rusty_Shackelford]

tomgamber wrote:
Once you learn to roll cast, you're going to like that glass. A lot of us fish water that is 20 to 30 at its very widest point if it ever gets that wide. Some of the smaller brook trout streams are less than 10 feet wide at most of the way. Probably has a lot to do with what's available to fish.

As for rods, its about what you're comfortable with. I know guys that like the longer rods on small streams for the reach. Others are good at casting and bad at walking and prefer to stay out of the trees. You'll get a ton of good suggestions. If they help great. If they don't seem right in practice, it doesn't mean you're doing it wrong. I see lot of guys go back and forth between techniques and hardware until they settle into a style of fishing they are successful with. Good luck and welcome.

At times I also follow tiny 6-10' wide brookie streams but always with 4.5-5' UL spinning gear so I am really excited to try it out with flies this year, it's going to present so many new possibilities for me; However 95% of all my fishing is done in the 2 local streams mentioned above for brown trout ranging anywhere from fingerlings to ~22" if you're really lucky. I fully intend to try every rod I can get my hands on until I find something that really works for me. There isn't going to be any one perfect rod for everywhere I go but if I can accumulate 2-3 that cover all my needs over the next year or two and feel right doing it I'll be thrilled. Roll casting is one of the first things I started working on, it seems like it's going to be one of the most valuable style casts for my kind of fishing, thank you.

 

[redietz]

Rusty_Shackelford wrote:

I just assumed the heavy weight was because of the very low price tag,

There's some of that involved as well. There are definitely glass rods lighter than the Featherweight, and there's a good chance that it will be more of a 4 weight anyway. Still, it's a fishable rod that many glass fans use just for the reverse snob factor.

 

[poopdeck]

A 4wt CT is a great rod. I have a lefty kreh 3 wt that was given to me. It hangs in my rack and I have used it one time. Maybe twice but definitely once. I would classify 2 and 3 as niche rods as well. I'm not really sure what niche but someone buys them so they must like them for a good reason. I started with a 5 then added in order a CT 4 wt, 6 wt, a couple 8 wts followed by the free 3. My most used rods are the 4 wt and the 8s followed by the 6 and 5. I largely fish medium to large WW streams and the Delaware river.

I will say that spin fishing for trout and pannies started boring me decades ago but when I got my first fly rod it made me feel like I was 10 years old again. It brought back an appreciation for trout and panfishing again. I'm sure you will enjoy whatever rod you choose to buy.

 

[ColdBore]

The good ole 9 foot 5 weight is hard to beat, and should be one of the first rods in any flyfisherman's arsenal.

Once you have some time on various streams with it, *then* you'll have a better feel for what you might want next.

 

[Swattie87]

ColdBore wrote:
The good ole 9 foot 5 weight is hard to beat, and should be one of the first rods in any flyfisherman's arsenal.

Once you have some time on various streams with it, *then* you'll have a better feel for what you might want next.

This is good, simple, out of the gate advice. If you were brand new to FFing, and didn't own a couple shorter/lighter rods already, this is the advice I would give too.

The 9'0 5wt gives you a baseline, and you'll learn well on it. You'll be able to fish it in any Trout fishing situation on any stream size you encounter in PA. Will it be perfect in all of them, no. But will it be fishable, yes. It will teach you where a shorter/longer or lighter/heavier rod may (or may not) be beneficial for you, and you can make better future buying decisions with that knowledge. And the 9'0 5wt will always have a useful place in a PA FFer's lineup.

Given that the OP already has an 8'0 4wt that he seems to like, I'd still lean to the 9'0 6wt in his personal situation, but there's really no wrong answer there with a 9'0 in a 5 or 6 weight.

 

[ColdBore]

True, however.... ;-)

He admits to being new to fly fishing. So I doubt he has much time and experience with the current rod. OP, please correct me if I'm wrong.

So I would still suggest a reset, and starting (over) at square one.

And in my personal opinion, that is a good 9 foot 5 weight.

He's going to end up with one anyway, what better time than now.

 

[tomgamber]

that's pretty solid advice!

 

[Rusty_Shackelford]

ColdBore wrote:
True, however.... ;-)

He admits to being new to fly fishing. So I doubt he has much time and experience with the current rod. OP, please correct me if I'm wrong.

So I would still suggest a reset, and starting (over) at square one.

And in my personal opinion, that is a good 9 foot 5 weight.

He's going to end up with one anyway, what better time than now.

I have a friend with a 9' 5wt that I'm welcome to use any time so if it turns out that after trying it a few times I can't live without one, I'll probably end up with one. I considered a 9' 5wt for my first rod but 9' just seems so long... Most things I read led me to believe most common trout rods were 4-6wt so I went with the lighter end since I don't like heavy gear but also didn't want to jump right into UL fly fishing either. A 8' 4wt seemed like a good compromise between a 9' 5wt and a 7'6" 3wt. It seems heavy enough to throw the occasional light streamer yet light enough to enjoy using on smaller water/fish. I am very new however and as you pointed out don't have much hands on experience and don't know anyone that does to ask for help/advice from. Once I try some more stuff I'll have a lot greater understanding of what I like/need but I expect I'll end up jumping one size and going to a 6wt to have a bit more versatile lineup. I am no Rockefeller and I really can't afford to go out and buy rods in every weight I might possibly need. I do really appreciate everyone's input on this thread so far tho, y'all are a friendly great community here

 

[gulfgreyhound]

I agree a 9ft 5 wt is a good place to start . It can handle most fishing situations. Nymphs to dry flies. Just practice on a stream . GG

 

[wbranch]

Davw_W wrote;

Hi Rusty, Welcome to our online fly fishing (FFing) community. Yes, a 3WT would be redundant. You will get many opinions about FF rods for beginners. In recent years the trend has been toward longer and lighter rods. In my opinion, much of this has been unnecessary. I own dozens of FF rods and have fished for everything from tiny brook trout to tarpon for forty years and I have never owned a rod under 4WT (have tried 'em and don't like 'em). Rods under 3WT and under 7' are novelties. Beginners should stick with conventional stuff meaning - for the average stream trout fisherman - rods between 7-9' and 4 or 5 WT (I recommend 5). Skip the 2 or 3 WT stuff and save your money for a bigger stick like a 7WT so that, if you really catch the FF bug, you will have a rod for steelhead and bass.

Everything Dave has said is spot on. Good advice. Save this comment. I have owned dozens of fly rods and only two were #3 weight rods. Anything less than a #3 is a joke. Sure probably a bunch or forum members might have a #0, #1, or #2, but they are still a joke. Unnecessary expenditure. Even with a #3 weight rod you need ideal conditions. Little to no wind and knowing before you get into the water you will be limited to the size of the fly you will be able to cast efficiently and safely. Not that a #4 weight is an all around rod either but I know I can still throw a #8 streamer if I slow my casting stroke and can still fish some larger nymphs and an a split shot or two if I'm willing to make some concessions in casting distance. I sold both #3 rods. I don't need them. If I just feel I have to throw a lighter line for some arcane reason I can always underline one of my #4 rods with a #3. If you want to buy another rod go get a nice 8' - 9' #5. Get a 4 piece if you fly once in awhile to fish otherwise stay with a two piece.

 

[Tigereye]

9 foot 5 wt = 30-06 of the fly fishing world

 

[jifigz]

ColdBore wrote:.

And in my personal opinion, that is a good 9 foot 5 weight.

He's going to end up with one anyway, what better time than now.

So am I crazy that I have been fly fishing for so many years and I've NEVER owned a 5 weight? I probably never will own one, either, I have a bunch of 4 weights and a few 6 weights, a 5 weight has no place here.

Seriously though, to the OP if you have an 8' Redington CT just stick with it. It's a good quality rod for the money. 8' isn't a bad length. A 4 weight is capable of basically everything regarding trout fishing.....I even chuck some pretty beefy streamers with them.