Rod loading question

robkonowitch

robkonowitch

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Feb 6, 2013
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I have noticed that when I am casting my 5wt BVK I do not feel the rod loading like I do on my old White River rod.

Is this because the rod is "Fast Action"? I am looking at maybe getting a 4wt rod that is slower if that is the case.

Can anyone help?
 
I am not familiar with that particular rod but the action likely has something to do with it, although high quality fast action rods will still have good "feel".
You may try using a heavier line on the rod to get more feel, say a 5 1/2 or a 6wt line to get that feel you are familiar with. As you get more proficient you will feel the intricacies of each rod more.
 
Rob,

I'd say you're on the track. Couple of quick questions......

What line do you currently use on it?

How big a stream / how far you casting on average?

If you are replacing a more traditonal action rod with a faster action rod (while using the same line), you probably will notice less feel. Especially notable when fishing in close. If you fish a tighter / shorter cast stream like Clarks, you may be better served using a GPX or Rio Grand (overweighted line) as it will help you gain 'feel' on shorter casts. You can even go one line heavier when fishing a tighter stream. If you take the same rod to Penns and are throwing longer casts, you will probably feel the rod loading better since you'll have more line out / bend it deeper into the blank.

Does that make sense?

You will fimd
 
robkonowitch wrote:
I have noticed that when I am casting my 5wt BVK I do not feel the rod loading like I do on my old White River rod.

Is this because the rod is "Fast Action"? I am looking at maybe getting a 4wt rod that is slower if that is the case.

Yes, it's because it's a faster action rod than your previous one.

So it will feel different. It won't bend as much as the other rod when casting a similar amount of line. So, the timing of the casting is a little different.

But, it may be just a matter of getting used to it. You might really like if after you've fished it awhile.
 
If I were you, I'd do some yard casting and let enough line out to feel the load and note what it feels like.
Then, gradually shorten the amount of line you have out until you can't feel the load. When you're fishing closer than that amount of line, move up one line size. It will necessitate a spare spool when on the stream and time for a line change, but it will work.
A few of my lines have marks on them at 10 foot increments from doing exactly this. The marks have also helped me in judging casting distance to a target.
 
I make short casts mostly (not a great caster) and need to yard cast when I get the time. I believe I have Cortland 333. Going to try to see what the Orvis outlet has tonight if I get to Lancaster in time.
 
Don't be afraid to stick a #5 line on it. I'll be that makes it feel better for ya.
 
Its a 5wt. Do you mean put 6 on it?
 
Yes. I OP, I saw "4 wt" and must have zoned out. A head heavy 5wt line that's about 1/2 strong or a 6wt wf or dt. Try and let us know what you think. If you want to try a 6wt Li e before spending $$, I've got one rigged on a reel. Wit til it's above 30 degrees and I'll come outside with it for ya to try.
 
A couple years ago I bought a 9', 5wt, TFO- BVK and I was using a Cabelas fly line. My casts felt a little sluggish is the best way I can describe it. Someone suggested to switch fly lines because the faster action rods work best with a fly line designed for fast action. They recommended SA/GPX. So I put on 5wt - wf Scientific Angler GPX fly line and I'm very happy with the way it casts now.
 
Thanks. Big help all of you!
 
Will overloading a rod essentially make a 5 wt a 6wt?
 
nope, it wont increase (or decrease) the stiffness of a rod.

What it will do is make that rod act weaker than its marked. Ie, load it with less line in the air with a like line. Keeping in mind there's a crap load of lines to pick from, so much so its gone to a form of confusion. And its visa versa, throw a 4wt line on and it's going to take a pile of line to get that rod loaded. If you go too far, the rod will collapse if you have too much line in the air. Its fine for a guy who likes to shoot (myself) vs cast. Instead of trying to keep 90' of line in the air, you get 30' up and shoot the rest. It will also throw heavier or more wind resistant flies easier due to the added line weight. Generally speaking a poor casting rod is usually due to a poor line match more than the rod itself.

A rods number (or designated rod weight) correlates to a given range of line weights in grains that it takes to load the rod....I forget the standard distance but 30' is screaming in my ears. By going up with a similar line its going to take less line in the air to load it, by going lower it takes more (with the same company and model line). There's so many different line designs on the market and companies for that matter that swapping any one thing can completely change how the rod reacts. On faster rods I generally as a rule go up 1 line weight for a wf floating. You may find that a DT line casts better than a wf line or visa versa. Due to the added weight in the air. Once you get past the length of your WF line of choice, the DT is going to be adding more line again.

So if you're casting short streams with a fast rod going up a line weight or even two, or buying a line with a short front taper will get the rod loaded faster than a longer front end line. Or if you're doing no close up work, say swinging for salmon/steelies, you may find you want a longer bellied line to load farther out. I prefer to shoot line, not cast it all day long. More air time equals less fish time.

Think say a pike/muskie taper vs a traditional wf line. In a similar line weight say 8wt, a SA Muskie/pike taper will load faster and throw bigger more wind resistant flies with ease compared to a similar 8wt sa mastery wf.

The line cannot change the rod. the rod is what the rod is.

Another tip, mark the running line end of your fly lines...after awhile you're going to have a pile of them if you don't already. I use black bands to signify weight class's, and red bands to signify sink rates. Wide bands equal 5, narrow bands equal 1. It takes the guess work out!

 
Rob, you're on the right track. I think fast and slow action are a misnomer. Anyone correct me if I'm wrong, but rod action refers to how deeply the rod loads. I think the misconception is that all fast rods have "no feel", and all slow rods are limp noodles.

I struggled with this concept for awhile, and then I cast a rod that I had read was supposed to be fast, and yet it had great feel and loaded with little line out of the guides.

Now I think of rods similar to how Orvis uses a flex index, but also take into consideration if I can feel them loading.

You will not damage your rod by bumping up a line weight either.
 
Thanks. I struggle to figure this stuff out for some reason. I just want to find a happy medium.

Really, it comes down to what I think I can use and how I can use it. Spending money on things I need or don't need
 
Cast as many different rods as you can, and do so how you'd fish them. You'll start to see what feels most comfortable.

With all the marketing hype manufacturers use, everyone struggles.
 
IMHO, here's what I'd do first, before selling and buying.

You have a rod, it will work fine and get you on the water. Meet up with guys and cast different lines. Find one that matches that rod, and you may find that it turns that pool cue into a sweet rod! I'd bet with some air time under different lines you'll find one that really sets this rod off. I'd contact TFO as well and see what lines they recommend for it. You might find someone in the R/D whose put this thing through the ringers and found the perfect line for it.

Or you may find out that nothing really matches it, sell it and buy something else. Though I find it hard to believe that you wont find something to fit it. As you progress, you'll find a combination that matches you to the bone, that's when I'd go out and buy something new. Thankfully today there's a LOT of good mid priced rods or even lower priced rods on the market compared to when I first started. It was either high end or basically junk. Kinda like buying binos, buy good once and you wont have to buy it again. in the fly rod world good doesn't always come with a high end price tag thankfully! If you find out after throwing lines with this rod that hey its not for me....hopefully you've had the chance to cast other rods as well as tinkering with line options on yours. One thing you'll find is there are a pile of rods on the market and many many rods cast almost the same as the a different brands high end rod. Take my TFO finesse 4 and my sage LL 3. That 3 is a sweet rod, the tfo is hard to tell much difference! You cant touch a used sage 3 LL for the price of a new tfo 4! If you'd like to cast both I'll bring both this spring!

In the end will it be the 'perfect' rod for everything you do? probably not. That's why most of us own a pile of them. I have a 'few' rod tubes stashed under the bed ready to roll, out of site out of mind LOL! Now if I could only grow more limbs to cast with I'd be set.......
 
Many fly shops have reels spooled up with various lines for customers to try out. Call the fly shops near you and see if they offer this service.

If so, cast the rod with a 6 wt line or a 5 1/2 wt line. It will probably cast fine, so buy the line from them and you will be "good to go."

A friend of mine bought an expensive rod rated as a 4 wt. But he thought it cast too stiff with a 4 wt line, and I agreed, and I prefer fast action fly rods.

The guys at the fly shop had him try a 5 wt line on it, and it cast great, so he kept the rod, and that's the rod he used most for trout fishing. Problem solved.
 
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