Rock Bass

There can't be many other night fisherman in the winter, let alone fly fishing. Your passion is admirable!

The population seems to be down in the lower West Branch Susquehanna and tributaries, but I haven't really targeted them like I did as a kid nor am I as much of a creek rat like I was then either.

I did catch a few 8-9 in fish this past summer and then got into pods of 3-4 in the fall. It will be interesting to see if their populations rebound.
 
The Conne is another one id love to explore for rock bass closer to the Susquehanna. I don’t know if thats where you mean’t. I want to check out access hoagestown to the mouth when i finally get w chance. I also love going for fall fish so it sounds like fun.
I’m west of Carlisle. Not sure what it’s like on the east side of RT114. The furthest I’ve fished has been Willow Mill Park. Keep wanting to fish further down. Just never seem to get there.
 
I found that in a local cold water stream the rock bass appear to almost stack up every winter. The pool is about 1/2 mile upstream from the confluence with a larger warmer and fertile body if water. I don’t understand that movement.

It may be that in the winter the stream has a warmer temperature than the larger body of water, and the rock bass are moving there for the warmer water.

In PA, spring water temperature ranges from about 48F in the north to 52F in the south. Where I live in mid-state PA it's 50F where it comes out of the ground, regardless of time of year. In the summer 50F is cooler than the larger bodies of water. But in the winter 50F is WARMER than the larger bodies of water, which right now are around 32F.
 
When you read about them it always say they like rocky bottoms and thats not always where I have found them. One of my best spots on the breeches is mostly a leaf litter bottom. Anyone else see any theme in regards to bottom substrate?
 
Many years ago, probably in the late 1980s, I caught lots of rock bass in the Raystown Branch of the Juniata River. It was absolutely teeming with them. I was getting strikes on nearly every cast.
 
When you read about them it always say they like rocky bottoms and thats not always where I have found them. One of my best spots on the breeches is mostly a leaf litter bottom. Anyone else see any theme in regards to bottom substrate?
Is that in late fall, winter, or year around regarding finding them over leaf litter. I could understand that perfectly if it is a seasonal habitat shift, which is pretty common among other species. Additionally, if it is a night vs day habitat shift, that’s common too. It could also be both, a seasonal and daily shift. Additionally, leaf litter tends to accumulate most in eddies or slower current. This reduced current is attractive to fish in cold water temps from an energetics standpoint plus the leaf litter there is a provider of macroinvertebrate forage and a hiding place for stream forage fish in winter. Your observation reminds me of finding lake smallmouth over mud bottoms in shallow coves in very early spring or the tail end of official winter. That’s typically that lair of largemouths.

To respond to another comment or two, I found that the streams and rivers of the Susquehanna Basin were the home of generally larger rock bass than those in the Delaware Basin. That observation was not true for all streams and river sections in the Susquehanna Basin, but it was true for all that I ever surveyed in the Delaware basin and I would say that on average it was true for the Susquehanna Basin that rock bass topped out at a larger size. The Susquehanna Basin produces some real whoppers. I’m a little foggy on how large the rock bass tended to be in SW Pa streams and rivers, but they certainly were not any worse than those on avg in the Delaware Basin and I don’t recall remarking or thinking that SW rock bass were particularly small, but I would say Susquehanna Basin RB were exceptionally large at times.

Longitudinal Species Shifts: Rock Bass and Trout

Regarding water temps, I never searched specifically for info on RB temp preferences or requirements in various life stages, although I suspect that I must have seen adult preferences in the past. They just didn’t register in my brain as being unusual for a warmwater species. In the field, however, it was clear that adults had an interesting association with cold or cool water. Regarding the generalized longitudinal shift in stream predators, moving downstream from the headwaters, the shift in predators went from ST to mixed ST/BT, to BT, to mixed BT/RB or mixed BT/Fallfish/and a few SMB. There is and was a definite overlap between BT and fallfish and/or rock bass. The fallfish overlap seemed to extend a greater distance than the RB overlap, but I did not see enough of that to make a more definitive statement.

An extreme flip-flop of an RB/BT overlap occurred in the lower portions of the WBr Perkiomen where in the early 1980’s it was a fairly good rock bass stream with no BT found in surveys. By 2007 or thereabouts, the rock bass were nowhere to be found and it was a fledgling wild BT stream. Somewhere in between it must have been a stream with an overlapping BT/RB population. The aforementioned observations occurred over the course of 40+ yrs in the field.
 
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Is that in late fall, winter, or year around regarding finding them over leaf litter. I could understand that perfectly if it is a seasonal habitat shift, which is pretty common among other species. Additionally, if it is a night vs day habitat shift, that’s common too. It could also be both, a seasonal and daily shift. Additionally, leaf litter tends to accumulate most in eddies or slower current. This reduced current is attractive to fish in cold water temps from an energetics standpoint plus the leaf litter there is a provider of macroinvertebrate forage and a hiding place for stream forage fish in winter. Your observation reminds me of finding lake smallmouth over mud bottoms in shallow coves in very early spring or the tail end of official winter. That’s typically that lair of largemouths.

To respond to another comment or two, I found that the streams and rivers of the Susquehanna Basin were the home of generally larger rock bass than those in the Delaware Basin. That observation was not true for all streams and river sections in the Susquehanna Basin, but it was true for all that I ever surveyed in the Delaware basin and I would say that on average it was true for the Susquehanna Basin that rock bass topped out at a larger size. The Susquehanna Basin produces some real whoppers. I’m a little foggy on how large the rock bass tended to be in SW Pa streams and rivers, but they certainly were not any worse than those on avg in the Delaware Basin and I don’t recall remarking or thinking that SW rock bass were particularly small, but I would say Susquehanna Basin RB were exceptionally large at times.

Finally, regarding water temps, I never searched specifically for info on RB temp preferences or requirements in various life stages, although I suspect that I must have seen adult preferences in the past. They just didn’t register in my brain as being unusual for a warmwater species. In the field, however, it was clear that adults had an interesting association with cold or cool water. Regarding the generalized longitudinal shift in stream predators, moving downstream from the headwaters, the shift in predators went from ST to mixed ST/BT, to BT, to mixed BT/RB or mixed BT/Fallfish/and a few SMB. There is and was a definite overlap between BT and fallfish and/or rock bass. The fallfish overlap seemed to gomfor a greater distance than the RB overlap, but I did not see enough of that to make a more definitive statement.

An extreme flip-flop of an RB/BT overlap occurred in the lower portions of the WBr Perkiomen where in the early 1980’s it was a fairly good rock bass stream with no BT found in surveys. By 2007 or thereabouts, the rock bass were nowhere to be found and it was a fledgling wild BT stream. Somewhere in between it must have been a stream with an overlapping BT/RB population.

While I have certainly been an observer of climate change for decades as it has related to my personal experiences with ice glacier recession and my on the scene exposure to rock glacier research/landslide occurrence in Switzerland, I have not been a “sky is falling” proponent when it comes to Pa wild trout populations. Note that I said Pa, not nationwide. Not every region of the US or elevation within the US has the rapid tree and shrub colonization and growth rate that we see in Pa. Within the warmest portion of the state I have seen too many cases of BT population expansion into formerly too warm waters for BT population survival over the course of as little as 8 yrs and as long as decades. While the climate is warming, land use is shifting, riparian vegetation is growing…growing faster and with greater density, and BT are populations are expanding into stream reaches that were previously too warm, and in some cases not only expanding longitudinally but also achieving Class A biomass status. This is the opposite of what I think some would think would be happening. I think this should provide hope, but it should also provide opportunity for intervention in some cases because nature is telling us how to cool or better safeguard some streams.
Yea i was wondering if it was just because of the ability ti expend less as well there. Anywhere with rockier bottom tends to be faster.
 
Over in NJ, as kids in the 60's we used to catch tons of rock bass in the Musconetcong River. We didn't have the skills to get many trout, but the rock bass always obliged. A couple of years ago a friend wanted to recreate our rock bass exploits and we failed. Couldn't find a one. Favorite spot was a cow pasture and now is a forest. Caught a large brown trout and was one time I would have rather seen a rock bass.

The Paulinskill, a few rivers north, still has a section loaded with rock bass and I do catch a few in the Delaware.

For what it's worth, the Finger Lakes rock bass population was really clobbered by VHS outbreak a few years ago.
 
I don’t think they are native to susky specifically but great lakes and some NY lakes I believe. There is a susky boat ramp with boulders where the rock bass always hide. If yours moved I wonder if the ones I was fishing for this sunmer are still there. Dang 27” walleye is a big fish. I often wonder if rock bass hunt at night more often at night for certain food items because i feel like alot of the trout streams if hit during day id never touch one then i took one night trip there and id hit 7-10.
I didn't think they were native. I didn't bring up my concern for their decline for that reason.. As you know I'm already up to my eyeballs in that one. Rock Bass form good memories for me. Summertime, sneakers and shorts after bailing hay all day and with a friend. I do believe they feed more at night now. I don't remember catching many as a lad fishing for eels at night with worms. They are a structure fish. In fact to catch them now you need to target structure. Back in the day they were in open water as well. Reason at the top of list for that change would be predation. We have many more aerial predators today than back then. We weren't a generation removed from a time when birds of prey were hunted for bounty. The purpose then was to increase the amount of food for us. They were tough times in the depression years of the 30's. Population dynamics of many species have changed both up and down in my lifetime thus far. I suspect that is the way of things.
 
It may be that in the winter the stream has a warmer temperature than the larger body of water, and the rock bass are moving there for the warmer water.

In PA, spring water temperature ranges from about 48F in the north to 52F in the south. Where I live in mid-state PA it's 50F where it comes out of the ground, regardless of time of year. In the summer 50F is cooler than the larger bodies of water. But in the winter 50F is WARMER than the larger bodies of water, which right now are around 32F.
In this instance I refer too the stream is a freestone stream coming out of a 8 mile narrow valley. Right now it is completely frozen over. There would be more limestone spring seeps in the main stem. It is possible there is a small spring seep in that location on the small stream. For me it doesn't explain the movement. I am sure that all those rock bass are definitely not year round residents of that stream. It's a curious thing for me..
 
Rock bass have nearly all vanished here on the West Branch Susquehanna River. They were the most abundant fish in the river below Lock Haven back in the mid 90s to mid 2000s then nearly completely vanished. As a kid I used to catch probably 10 rock bass to every smallmouth a lot of days. I now catch about 1 a year. Rock bass hit many of the same presentations a smallie would. You can't say I'm not catching them because I've changed my fishing style. You can't blame invasive species because they haven't migrated that far up the West Branch yet. I want an answer to why they vanished! I'm not saying they were the greatest fish in the world BUT when something was as prolific as rock bass were and now they are nearly all gone?!?! Forget about the stupid shad in the river because of the damns they are a waste of time and money. Fix the current issues we have! Stabilize and fix the current fisheries we have THEN worry about the species we don't! (the PA Game Commission is the same way with releasing/reintroducing fishers when the turkey and grouse populations were on a sever decline...makes a lot of sense right?) Where has the PFBC been the last 15-20 years and why are rock bass neglected?
 
I didn't think they were native. I didn't bring up my concern for their decline for that reason.. As you know I'm already up to my eyeballs in that one. Rock Bass form good memories for me. Summertime, sneakers and shorts after bailing hay all day and with a friend. I do believe they feed more at night now. I don't remember catching many as a lad fishing for eels at night with worms. They are a structure fish. In fact to catch them now you need to target structure. Back in the day they were in open water as well. Reason at the top of list for that change would be predation. We have many more aerial predators today than back then. We weren't a generation removed from a time when birds of prey were hunted for bounty. The purpose then was to increase the amount of food for us. They were tough times in the depression years of the 30's. Population dynamics of many species have changed both up and down in my lifetime thus far. I suspect that is the way of things.
Yea they do make good memories. They are aggressive and even though their small their mouths are big so the favorite night time wet flies for brown in size 6-8 get mugged by those little guys often on nights the trout action slows down. Its a nice chance to get something else but also being in the game for them without having to downsize your flies.
 
Rock bass have nearly all vanished here on the West Branch Susquehanna River. They were the most abundant fish in the river below Lock Haven back in the mid 90s to mid 2000s then nearly completely vanished. As a kid I used to catch probably 10 rock bass to every smallmouth a lot of days. I now catch about 1 a year. Rock bass hit many of the same presentations a smallie would. You can't say I'm not catching them because I've changed my fishing style. You can't blame invasive species because they haven't migrated that far up the West Branch yet. I want an answer to why they vanished! I'm not saying they were the greatest fish in the world BUT when something was as prolific as rock bass were and now they are nearly all gone?!?!
The smallmouth bass population has gone up in that stretch, right? Maybe the smallmouth have displaced the rock bass.
 
I don’t care how small they are, they have one hell of an appetite!

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The population in the Juniata River has all but collapsed. You used to be able to find spots where I could catch 100 in a day. Now I catch maybe three an entire season.

Oh well, they aren't native to the river and the might be the worst fighting fish that swims. They are truly lousy fighters.
 
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