biker 'ol buddy you should try and not hold back so much in your criticism , just go ahead an let it out man , it's ok......jk........MIKE , what i was trying to tell you in the last post was that at one time not so long ago the Stonycreek waas just5 as bad , if not worse than the Conemaugh , Mountain Laurel T.U. along with members Len Lichvar (Now ON the PFBC) Lester McNutt and others are mainly responsible for what you see when you stand at the "Point" and compare the two. The point i was trying to make is that if you start by trying to contact those folks you might expedite things and like CHAZ says , you won't be going back over things that would waste valuable time. I'm bettin that form you are finding it difficult to obtain , were you to contact Len Lichvar through Mountain Laurel T.U. , i'll bet you have it in hand much more quickly than the way you are trying to pursue it. Mountain Laurel T.U. holds their meetings at Gander Mountain , they are open to the public , Len attends many of the meetings at least he used to , probably not as many now but if you want help , take it when offered.