Rattlesnakes 2021

[jifigz]

phiendWMD wrote:
No rattlesnakes yet this year, but I did see a copperhead on the Lehigh below White Haven today. I should have cast to it, the trout weren't interested in what I was doing...

Not being insulting, but are you sure it wasn't a water snake? So many people around me call every dang water snake they see a "copperhead" and proceed to kill it.

 

[FarmerDave]

jifigz wrote:

phiendWMD wrote:
No rattlesnakes yet this year, but I did see a copperhead on the Lehigh below White Haven today. I should have cast to it, the trout weren't interested in what I was doing...

Not being insulting, but are you sure it wasn't a water snake? So many people around me call every dang water snake they see a "copperhead" and proceed to kill it.

True, but when I was a kid, when I saw a watersnake, I called it a water snake ... and proceeded to kill it. ;-)

What can I say, I was a kid who grew up in the outdoors. Watersnakes always seemed to have a dad attitude.

As far as copperhead in PA, what you said is correct, but apparently they are more common in Southern PA than I used to think.

I once had a co-worker in Cleveland who claimed he saw a water moccasin in a Cleveland metropark. I expressed serious doubt, but he insisted. At that point, I found it best to just nod when he said something stupid like that.

 

[Dave_W]

Here in SCPA copperheads are widespread but I consider them rare and very rarely see them (they're mostly nocturnal).

Watersnkes, on the other hand, are extremely common and I see them almost every time I go fishing on a stream. When other anglers rtell me they saw a "copperhead" in the stream we are fishing that day, I assume it's a watersnake.

 

[Mike]

DaveW,
Since you notice water snakes and since you, as an artist, have a keen eye for detail, keep an eye out for a different water snake; it is the Queen snake. They don’t look at all like our common Northern water snake, are docile, and can be an indicator of fair water quality.They feed exclusively on crayfish and something in the back of my mind says soft-shelled, recently molted crayfish. Their distribution is quite limited in Pa. From a practical standpoint, they are pretty restricted to a few south central counties. I saw them three times in York Co, twice on the same stream about 35 yrs apart and once on another. Both streams had low to sub-moderate density wild BT populations. Bryan Chikotas also spotted one recently in his adjacent region. These critters are docile but easily frightened and often drop from tree or shrub branches hanging 3 ft or less over the water. So you may spot one as you fish in an upstream direction. I always considered it to be a privilege when I saw one close up in the field.

 

[Mike]

Regarding Copperheads, despite my interest and field experience I only recently became aware of their still limited, but more widespread distribution in SE Pa than I ever realized. In fact, my friends and I spent a lot of time in the hills around my childhood home and never saw one or even thought that they could be there. It turns out that in recent times they have been found on and along those three mountains. While I ran into a lot of different critters in those hills by chance alone, Copperheads were not one of them. Each time that someone in my life has said that he killed a Copperhead and clearly felt “very manly,” it turned out to be a water snake or a milk snake. What a shame that people are so ignorant regarding the natural world. In case I have left any doubt, I would have felt the same way if the snake that was killed had turned out to be a Copperhead.

 

[troutbert]

I have seen many waters snakes and a fair number of rattlesnakes.

I have never seen a copperhead, and I wonder how many really exist in PA, and what their distribution is.

 

[rrt]

I have seen a number of copperheads locally. Their camouflage makes them hard to see.

When I was young (50 years ago), I was walking up through some weeds in the dark after fishing one evening and felt something slap against my boots. When I got home, there were two small holes that did not penetrate the rubber of the LaCrosse boots. i figured that a copperhead had hit them. The lightweight boots I now wear: the bite would likely have gone through the boot.

I once teased a copperhead by poking it with my rod tip. That snake was very unaggressive and basically ignored the rod tip. Glad it didn't bite it. I have seen a few others on rock piles near the same creek.

One family lived in a house that had copperheads in its basement when they moved there. They had to kill them by shooting them in the basement till they finally got rid of them.

I have no idea about the statewide distribution of copperheads.

About water snakes: They were common when I began fishing. However, I rarely see one today. I do not why their population has apparently crashed locally, but it has.

I have never seen a rattlesnake while fishing locally, though I have seen them in the woods around here. The only rattlers I have seen while fly-fishing were up north near a hunting camp I belong to in Clinton County and another that scared the snot out of me one night after dark along the Little Juniata River when I had a very dim flashlight. Truth be told, I do not want to run into rattlers while fishing.

 

[Swattie87]

troutbert wrote:
I have seen many waters snakes and a fair number of rattlesnakes.

I have never seen a copperhead, and I wonder how many really exist in PA, and what their distribution is.

Me too. I think this is in part by me doing most of my fishing in areas where Rattlers are more common than Copperheads (northern PA). But I’d like to know what their population estimate in PA is. I’m in the woods a lot, even in southern PA, and have never seen one.

 

[afishinado]

Swattie87 wrote:

troutbert wrote:
I have seen many waters snakes and a fair number of rattlesnakes.

I have never seen a copperhead, and I wonder how many really exist in PA, and what their distribution is.

Me too. I think this is in part by me doing most of my fishing in areas where Rattlers are more common than Copperheads (northern PA). But I’d like to know what their population estimate in PA is. I’m in the woods a lot, even in southern PA, and have never seen one.

++1 ^ Plenty of timber rattlers in the woods and many watersnakes along and in the streams and rivers, but never I have never run into a copperhead.

 

[ebair25]

Out of all the "copperhead" sightings I've been told of in PA there was only 1 I was able to confirm.

Still have the picture of it somewhere, but it was in a heavily used area in Caledonia a few years ago.

 

[Dave_W]

Copperheads' range in PA essentially follows Interstate 80 with few if any found north of that road. I think this might have had something to do with the extent of glaciation(?).

Mike,
Thanks for the info on the queen snake - this made my day - what a cool thing to learn!
I was not aware of this species and doubt I've ever seen one (I googled searched it and they look vaguely familiar). Anyway, they exist in my neck of the woods and streams I fish locally have extremely high densities of crayfish, which are currently molting, so I'll keep an eye out for this snake.

 

[wildtrout2]

Last year I encountered Milk Snakes on two different occasions. Both times they were right on the stream itself. They aren't big at all, but they sure are beautiful.

 

[Lkyboots]

I talked to a person who worked for the PGC and they told me the area with the most Copperheads was around Franklin north along the river.

 

[bdfish]

Haven't seen any yet but we usually get one a year around the house. I have only seen two Copperheads in my life. One baby on the railtrail along Penns and one in Minehart Gap near the old reservoir. We have a lot of big black rat snakes around. Probably due to the multitude of chipmunks.

 

[riverwhy]

I read somewhere that the Rattlesnakes East of 81 in SC Pa are isolated from the rest of the population. It suggested the population was isolated because of the highway.
Does anyone have any knowledge to share on this? Is this the case with any other spots farther east like Schuykill County. Rattlers north of say 81 but not south? Is anyone aware of other isolated and I would think vulnerable populations?

 

[FarmerDave]

Lkyboots wrote:
I talked to a person who worked for the PGC and they told me the area with the most Copperheads was around Franklin north along the river.

If you mean Venango County, 100 to 1 they are Water Snakes. Lots of them along French Creek and the big A.

 

[Dave_W]

riverwhy wrote:
I read somewhere that the Rattlesnakes East of 81 in SC Pa are isolated from the rest of the population. It suggested the population was isolated because of the highway.
Does anyone have any knowledge to share on this? Is this the case with any other spots farther east like Schuykill County. Rattlers north of say 81 but not south? Is anyone aware of other isolated and I would think vulnerable populations?

This is correct, although I'm not sure about other rattlesnake populations in PA.

In the case of SCPA, we're talking about the population in Michaux SF. This population has been at best stable and there were concerns about it declining some years ago. Rattlesnake harvest is not allowed in Michaux or other sections of South Mountain (at least this used to be the case, I have not checked this as I do not hunt rattlesnakes).

 

[FarmerDave]

wildtrout2 wrote:
Last year I encountered Milk Snakes on two different occasions. Both times they were right on the stream itself. They aren't big at all, but they sure are beautiful.

They are beautiful, and although most of the ones I've seen have been relatively small, they can get well over 4 foot. Long and slender. The one I saw the other day was probably about 30 inches. H was all stretched out next to a fence post I had placed on the ground behind my carriage house.

Smaller ones also seem to be more colorful.

When I was a kid, I was picking wild strawberries with my little brother. He was probably about 4 years old. I heard him sort of crying and noticed he was frozen in his tracks. When I asked what was wrong, all he said was one long drawn out word ... S...N...A...K...E! I walked over thinking it was probably a garter, or maybe a black snake. All I saw was about a third of this snake as it was escaping through tie weeds. I grabbed little brother and ran. Later, I described the snake to our dad, and he said it was a house snake (another name for a milk snake).

 

[Swattie87]

The highway itself likely isn’t the barrier between the South Mountain/Michaux population and the broader population in PA north and/or west of Blue Mountain. It’s more likely the broader span of the low lying Cumberland Valley proper is the barrier. (And the Lebanon and Lehigh Valleys further east.) The CV, for example, is roughly 15-20 miles across for most of its length in PA. Timber Rattlers are typically found in more mountainous terrain, and the mountains north and west of Blue Mountain are more continuous with much narrower valleys between them.

There’s actually two interstate highways that span the Cumberland Valley. I81 and I76 (PA Turnpike). I don’t think a divided highway itself would be a barrier though. There are many bridges, underpasses, and culverts through which they could pass.

In northern Lebanon County and Schuylkill County there are Rattlers on both sides of I81, so the highway isn’t a barrier there.

 

[FarmerDave]

rrt wrote:
I have seen a number of copperheads locally. Their camouflage makes them hard to see.

One family lived in a house that had copperheads in its basement when they moved there. They had to kill them by shooting them in the basement till they finally got rid of them.

Milk Snakes, otherwise known as house snakes are often mistaken for copperheads. Milk Snakes are often found in old barns and basements hence the names.

I'm not doubting you Rich, because I think you live where there are copperheads. But milk snakes can be found all over the state.

Someone on here said the dividing line for copperheads is about I-80. That sounds about right. Any North of that are considered MUPEARS.;-)