Question about manufactured tapered leaders

[dudemanspecial]

I tie my own leaders, so I have not purchased a store bought tapered leader in 10+ years. My kids want me to take them fishing more this year and to make life easier and less complicated for myself, I want to buy them some leaders (example - Rio Powerflex).

My question: is a 7.5 ft 3x leader the same as a 9 foot 5x leader, just without the 4x or 5x tippet? Or is the taper totally different? My plan is to put a tippet ring on the end of a 3x leader for them to work off of but not sure if I should buy the 9 foot and cut the tippet off or if I'm okay with using the 7.5 3x and putting the ring right on it so they can add whatever tippet is necessary.

They will be using 8-9 foot 5 weight rods and likely mixing up indicator nymphing and dry droppers. I don't want to buy the 7.5ft 3x if the butt and mid section are made to match a 7 weight or higher line.

Thanks!

 

[krayfish2]

I'd suggest 9', 4x or 5x. It gives you a little wiggle room when tying on the tippet ring. You could use up to a foot or so of the line when tying on the ring to get your desired performance

 

[6xAdams(Jones)]

I recommend the same as krayfish, but only for the first season. Over the winter, have them build their own tapered leaders. There's no better way to learn blood knots and surgeon's knots and they won't have to interrupt your fishing time to tie knots next spring. Also, when you pass 40, your kids will be able to tie knots for you when you can't find your readers.

 

[dudemanspecial]

I recommend the same as krayfish, but only for the first season. Over the winter, have them build their own tapered leaders. There's no better way to learn blood knots and surgeon's knots and they won't have to interrupt your fishing time to tie knots next spring. Also, when you pass 40, your kids will be able to tie knots for you when you can't find your readers.

I'm 41 and have been using readers for 3 years. My eyesight sucks, always has. I wear glasses / contacts since I was 7. I can't see a dry fly on the water for ****.

While it would make me happy to see them get to the point they would want to tie their own leaders in a year, I'll settle with them wanting to actually just be with me when I go. My oldest son is 16 and loves fishing but making it complicated for him turns him off. I cannot ever see him wanting to build leaders. His favorite thing is bass poppers off of a dock on a pond.

My 10 year old son is a different story. He likes tying flies and appreciates the finer details of things in life. I could see him wanting to make his own someday but I will wait until he asks. If I try to make him do it he won't be interested.

 

[dudemanspecial]

I'd suggest 9', 4x or 5x. It gives you a little wiggle room when tying on the tippet ring. You could use up to a foot or so of the line when tying on the ring to get your desired performance

That makes sense. Thanks.

 

[Roofin' Trouter]

I'm 41 and have been using readers for 3 years. My eyesight sucks, always has. I wear glasses / contacts since I was 7. I can't see a dry fly on the water for ****.

My eyes are bad and dexterity is also bad. But I tie leaders using a Dennison blood knot tool. I also mark the ends of different size line with differing colored acrylic paint markers. This helps on which tag goes which way.

 

[troutbert]

...or if I'm okay with using the 7.5 3x and putting the ring right on it so they can add whatever tippet is necessary.

That's a very good way to go.

If you are fishing streamers, add 3x to the tippet ring.

If you are fishing big dries or nymphs, add 4x to the tippet ring.

If you are using medium to smaller flies, add a piece of 4x to the tippet ring, and tie 5x to the 4x.

 

[JimNovo]

What kind of flies and what size tippet are they planning to fish?

A 9ft 3x leader tied to a tippet ring let’s you use tippet from 3x down. If you use a 9ft 5x leader aren’t you kind of stuck fishing 5x and down tippet?

 

[troutbert]

What kind of flies and what size tippet are they planning to fish?

A 9ft 3x leader tied to a tippet ring let’s you use tippet from 3x down. If you use a 9ft 5x leader aren’t you kind of stuck fishing 5x and down tippet?

Yes, exactly.

 

[dudemanspecial]

What kind of flies and what size tippet are they planning to fish?

A 9ft 3x leader tied to a tippet ring let’s you use tippet from 3x down. If you use a 9ft 5x leader aren’t you kind of stuck fishing 5x and down tippet?

If I would buy the 9footers I would cut the 5 x back then put a ring on it. Which is why I figured just buying the shorter 3 x and adding what I want would be the way to go.

What I was unsure of is if the short 3x leaders had overly stiff butts for 5 weight lines or were they the same as a 9foot leader without the thinner tippet

 

[lestrout]

Yo dude - I've miked quite a few hundred leaders, and in general the butt diameters don't crank up until the heavier leaders (like 0X) come into play. With any manufactured tapered leader, the level tippet is a foot or two, so to get good energy transfer with rings or more tippet, I shorten until maybe only 9-12" of the level is left.

 

[dudemanspecial]

Yo dude - I've miked quite a few hundred leaders, and in general the butt diameters don't crank up until the heavier leaders (like 0X) come into play. With any manufactured tapered leader, the level tippet is a foot or two, so to get good energy transfer with rings or more tippet, I shorten until maybe only 9-12" of the level is left.

Thank you. This is exactly what I was looking for.

 

[krayfish2]

What kind of flies and what size tippet are they planning to fish?

A 9ft 3x leader tied to a tippet ring let’s you use tippet from 3x down. If you use a 9ft 5x leader aren’t you kind of stuck fishing 5x and down tippet?

Nope. For example, I'll take a 9', 4x leader and the first section I'll add is 3x. 3x after 4x?? Yes. If you think about it, you are using up some of that leader to tie on your tippet and that leader is tapered. I've done that for years and feel that it helps in leader longevity and allows me to add a little stiffness to the end of my leader (or at least in my mind 😁). I think it helps when making a longer than usual leader. Last benefit is I can change my 4x & 5x several times without eating up my tapered leader.

 

[lestrout]

Nope. For example, I'll take a 9', 4x leader and the first section I'll add is 3x. 3x after 4x?? Yes. If you think about it, you are using up some of that leader to tie on your tippet and that leader is tapered. I've done that for years and feel that it helps in leader longevity and allows me to add a little stiffness to the end of my leader (or at least in my mind 😁). I think it helps when making a longer than usual leader. Last benefit is I can change my 4x & 5x several times without eating up my tapered leader.

Yo kray - does that 4X tapered leader end mike out to 0.007" or so? Or has the level end been consumed enough to mike out at thicker? A long time ago, when I was learning how to build leaders from the Orvis kit, I read in A J McClane or somewhere about concave leaders, whereby there were sections of thicker mono between thinner pieces. They did cast kind of funky, and a little wind caused tangles, so I gave up the idea in favor of progressive tapers. Then once I started using storebought tapered leaders in weedy waters, I standardized on using 9' 2X or 3X for trout, where I would use up the first foot or so, then build down to my usual 7X and 8X. Now I get my jollies from rescuing discarded mono and even full leaders (!) from parking lots and trees, and using them up by making adjustments with virgin mono. I'm saving the birds by cleaning up the trash and repurposing someone's thoughtlessly discarded trash. With 8X or finer, I can use really degraded spinning line without creating new weak links, plus the weathered surface takes floatant better than virgin shiny mono. The years I studied leader formulas and built them come in handy now, when it's the luck of the draw what I find in the wild.

 

[falcon]

I was reading the book Selectivity by M. Supinski. He designs a Spring Creek leader with a Convex "kicker" in the midsection where he tapers down to 8in of .015 then 10in of .017 then down to 6in of .013. Thereafter the tippet section begins.

 

[krayfish2]

Les,
You are giving me way too much credit. Do you think I measure the diameter of the tippet or the length of it? 😁.
I do it all by feel and guestimate. If I don't like the result I'm getting, pull it in, cut and rebuild.

 

[Fish Sticks]

a great kid starter is $75 glass 7.5-8.5 three weight with 7 foot leader made of 20-15-10 in even sections to tippet ring(heavy mono tangles less than thinner stuff with beginning casters. I use this rig to teach kids how to swing wets for pans, smallies and rock bass. Fiberglass rods are tough/Durable and the slow action slows down their casting naturally and helps them develop a pause.

Also makes sunfish runaway dump trucks

 

[dudemanspecial]

a great kid starter is $75 glass 7.5-8.5 three weight with 7 foot leader made of 20-15-10 in even sections to tippet ring(heavy mono tangles less than thinner stuff with beginning casters. I use this rig to teach kids how to swing wets for pans, smallies and rock bass. Fiberglass rods are tough/Durable and the slow action slows down their casting naturally and helps them develop a pause.

Also makes sunfish runaway dump trucks

Good advice. My kids are far from beginners at this point and have their own gear. I just want to make it easy for them to fix their own leaders instead of asking me.

 

[Fish Sticks]

Good advice. My kids are far from beginners at this point and have their own gear. I just want to make it easy for them to fix their own leaders instead of asking me.

Oh nice! Yea lol store bought the way to go.

 

[6xAdams(Jones)]

Les,
You are giving me way too much credit. Do you think I measure the diameter of the tippet or the length of it? 😁.
I do it all by feel and guestimate. If I don't like the result I'm getting, pull it in, cut and rebuild.

Our leaders are built based on a tattered hand-written recipe from my wife's grandfather. He built and sold leaders (and tied flies) in the Sporting Goods Department in a Horne's Department store, while dressed in jacket and tie. He could build leaders without measuring anything. The rest of us have to use the recipe and a yardstick.