Professional question: RT don't rise to Ltl black stoneflies? Really?

[Mike]

Answered an email from a fly angler today who was politely complaining that I had eliminated brown trout from the Pickering Ck DH Area preseason stocking. He claimed that the stream has a Ltl black stonefly hatch in late Feb and March and that RT don't rise to the flies; therefore, he was requesting that some Browns be included in the preseason stocking. So, what are your experiences in this SPECIFIC regard on this or other stocked streams that you fish when this hatch is occurring?

 

[Chaz]

Stocked Bows definitely rise to black stone flies.

 

[Maurice]

I would agree with him 100%. Stocked Rainbow trout are poor risers. In the odd chance that I catch a rainbow on top it really shocks me.

 

[Fishidiot]

Okay, I guess I'll rise to bite on this one. . .

In my experience - very generally speaking - stocked rainbows are less inclined to rise than browns, regardless of hatch.

I think there is a general sense among PA FFers that this tends to be true. I often hear a similar complaint to the one you describe above from local FFers who grumble that the dry fly fishing is lousy because the agency switched to stocking RTs.

Much of my experience in this regard comes from Yellow Breeches and my local stocked ATWs. They usually put equal numbers of RTs and BTs in at the same times (sometimes more RT) and if I'm fishing on top I tend to get BTs (same with streamers) and if I switch to nymphing I seem to get mostly RTs.

Just my unscientific observation and opinion - honestly I wouldn't carry this view very far (shoulder shrug).

 

[OldLefty]

Mike, I've had many years to observe the difference between hatchery RT and BT and their surface feeding habits.

My experience is that, more often than not, RT are unpredictable when it comes to surface feeding on hatching insects throughout the year. It is not uncommon to observe a RT rise once to perhaps three times and pause for minutes or not rise again. Yes, there are exceptions to this and occasionally a RT will rise steadily for a time.
Whenever I observe a trout rise a time or two and then nothing or another rise or two minutes later, if at all, I can guarantee it is a RT.

Hatchery BT will usually rise steadily during a hatch. It is the exception for a BT to rise unpredictably.

I see this on Pine Creek, Little Pine and other streams where RT are stocked. It is one of the reasons I, too. prefer hatchery BT to RT.

 

[The_Sasquatch]

Oh you guys. You need to learn to shadow cast. It'll make a rainbow rise.

 

[dryflyguy]

My experience with early season stoneflies, is that the fish - regardless if they're Brook ,BT or RT - seem rather reluctant to rise well to them. I've always kinda figured that it's because the water is usually quite cold when they hatch.
And the few times I have had good rising to them, I've caught rainbows on streams where they're stocked.
I would add though, that palominos have always seemed very reluctant to rise - to ANY hatch.

 

[Troy]

Rainbows rise well in the Tully.

 

[LeTortAngler2]

On some of my hometown streams like the Yough and Laurel, I've caught a fair amount of stocked RT on top especially during the prime months over the years, but the number is dwarfed in comparison to browns on top... I've seen studies that has shown Brown Trout do rise more than any other trout in the US, especially at dawn and dusk. I do believe this to be true and also prefer the Brown over the RT.

 

[Chaz]

I think the key during the winter is that most of the rises when the winter stone flies are hatching is that the trout don't get them when they are hatching, they get them when they come back to lay eggs, and when they die spent on the water.
This is why you nearly always impart a little moment to the imitation to entice a rise. You seldom see large numbers of trout in a rise during the stonefly hatch. I always catch rainbows rising when I fish stocked streams in the winter.

 

[phiendWMD]

In my limited experience, this seems true to me as well. In the streams I fish where both are stocked I am much more likely to catch BT on dries. In fact last year I didn't catch a single RT. I definitely noticed the lack of RT I was catching throughout the season. I fish dries almost exclusively, but I never made the connection. My results might be affected by something else, like using the wrong flies or presentation, so I don't know that I'm willing to just say BT are more likely to rise.

 

[pcray1231]

My experiences generally mirror Old Lefty's, though I will say that stocked fish in general are often un-predictable.

Still, it seems when fish are rising steadily, rainbows are few and far between, and when they do rise it's once or twice and then down. Browns feed away.

Yet, in between major hatching activity, there's no browns rising at all, but the occasional rainbow still comes up at the same inconsistent rate.

Really, the same seems true for subsurface presentations as well.

i.e. browns seem to more clearly respond to cycles in the stream. They turn completely off and it's like they aren't there, and then something happens (surface or subsurface), and they go nuts. Rainbows tend to be in a more steady state situation. They're nearly always catchable, but rarely go into crazy active mode.

 

[krayfish2]

IMHO, early black stone hatch is 90% hype due to cabin fever. I've rarely seen a decent hatch or fish freely rising to any adults. I think the adults spend very little time on the water (crawl out and stay on land for the most part).

Stocked RT reluctant to feed on top..... kinda. Troy beat me to it as I was going to use the Tully as an example. It gets a large number of RT and they rise. Yough is another with RT where the stockers rise. The only thing I might say is that they are less consistent / less predictable when it comes to rises. Lightning trout, rarely rise.

Looking at a watershed with wild BT and wild RT... the D. The wild fish rise freely. Quite often you'll catch RT in water that is dead water. They cruise around cleaning off the surface. On that particular watershed, I think you need to have a more substantial hatch to bring the BT to the surface. The two species definitely hold in very different types of water.

 

[Chaz]

The 3 species of trout seem to have a pecking order as to when they feed, when the brookies are feeding the BT and RT are nowhere to be found, when the browns feed the other 2 are nowhere to be found, and when rainbows are feeding the BT and ST are nowhere to be found. At Cold Run the RT are always ready to feed on top, and C.R. is a fertile stream.
The 3 species tend to work different ares of the streams where they are all stocked, browns like the slow pools, rainbows the pocket water, and brookies get the dregs.

 

[geebee]

it depends on the water they are stocked in.

RT prefer faster water, riffles etc where you may not see them rise or they are feeding in the current taking nymph etc.

browns prefer slower flatter water.

note i said prefer - if there is only deep flat water, bows will hold there and you see them feed on top.

i too have seen bows rising on the Tully in several places, and have caught numerous bows on emergers on other tailwaters on deep 'flats'.

i read somewhere that 90% of trouts food is taken sub surface - thats for both.

 

[McSneek]

Troy wrote:
Rainbows rise well in the Tully.

I'll second this but it's about the only place I've seen them surface feed with any consistency.

 

[salvelinus]

IMO the rainbows they dump in Cross Fork at the snowmobile bridge seem to rise pretty regularly. I've never really seen them rise a lot but have done well on RT with dries in the Allegheny.

 

[streamerguy]

On my local waterway the stocked rainbows rise pretty consistently during a good hatch in the spring. The stocked browns maybe a tad more consistent, but it's pretty darn close. I honestly think a good portion of the rising rainbows are leftovers from the fall stocking(and old winter stockings). It is no longer stocked in the winter though.......which is a huge bummer both for the winter and spring fisheries. I always felt that the fall and winter fish responded to dries better than the fresher spring stockies. But that's a whole 'nuther topic....

Elsewhere, I do notice the browns rise better than rainbows, but the rainbows still rise at a good rate. I catch plenty of both on top where I fish.

 

[streamerguy]

dryflyguy wrote:
My experience with early season stoneflies, is that the fish - regardless if they're Brook ,BT or RT - seem rather reluctant to rise well to them. I've always kinda figured that it's because the water is usually quite cold when they hatch.

I agree. Also from my experiences the fish are usually fresh out of the truck when the hatch occurs.......so they may not be fully acquainted to the various food sources yet..

 

[SBecker]

My experience on the Jordan is the RT rise when there is a hatch even on the first day of fishing and to the olives in the weeks prior.