Potential consequences for the private stocking

[tomgamber]

I read an article that said they are hoping to classify 97 new stream sections as Class A...why? Because now that they are all in danger of being affected by gas drilling, this designation may afford them some protection. Funny how that works.

here it is...

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/outdoors/s_720458.html

 

[salvelinusfontinalis]

First of all, I've called several different WCO's about stocking Class A streams in the past. It is against the law to stock a Class A stream (It is a policy backed by laws that lead to fines and other penalties). However, it is extremly hard to get the stocking shut down.

Its only hard to get it shutdown because often the PFBC supports it. evidence? Wyomissing in the middle of the Class A section. Stocked by Wymossing residents with permits from the PFBC.

 

[JackM]

I think those claiming they were told by PFBC it is illegal to stock class A streams should ask the informant under what section of the regulations they claim this. I posted above the only regulations that seem to effect the issue and as I noted, I don't think it is clear at all. Co-op fish cannot be stocked in Class A, at least without specific permission of the PFBC and I doubt they give it, even if it is true as alleged that they turn a blind eye.

The law does not seem to define "wild trout management waters." If anyone can find what that means, let us know.

These may be applicable and the Class A one may be applicable:

http://www.pacode.com/secure/data/058/chapter71/s71.5.html

http://www.pacode.com/secure/data/058/chapter57/chap57toc.html#57.8a.

 

[Chaz]

Well the local Coop Hatchery Still stocks the Class A section of Perkiomen Creek. And what about Western Clinton Sportsmen stocking all those Clinton County Streams and getting PFBC to say a survey on Young Womens Creek says it's not Class A anymore? And what about Cross Fork, Class A Headwaters to mouth. It's still stocked. Must I go on.
Bucket biologists dump stockies caught elsewhere in to the West Branch of Perkiomen.
There are Class A Streams all over PA that are stocked and stocked fish migrate into them from all over. Some of these fish are miles from stocked water, you're telling me in doesn't happen? Get real!

 

[Mike]

Cold Run, mentioned twice above as being a stocked Class A stream, is not stocked in the Class A section. Section 02, located downstream from Section 01, is not class A and is stocked.

Also probably appearing on Chaz's list of Class A streams that are stocked is Sacony Ck., Sections 02 and 03. Neither section is Class A. Section 01, which is not stocked, is Class A.

 

[MKern]

I have had experience with WCO fining people who stock Class A streams. The officer told me they would rather go after the hatcheries, who are supposed to check into where their fish are going, than the clueless guy who stocked the stream.

 

[CRB]

Any one write the man in charge, John Arway?
http://www.fish.state.pa.us/inform.htm

I was told the boys at the clubs buy fishing licenses. The more the cage rattles the more importance the issue becomes with the powers at be.

 

[Mike]

Tomgamber: The article says 97 streams will be added to the wild trout list, NOT to the Class A list. Three of the streams will be added to the Class A list as well. As for your remark about gas well drilling and the stepped up pace of wild trout stream surveys, the article clearly states that surveys are being precipitated by gas well drilling AND the impacts of urbanization. In fact, the program initially keyed in on areas of rapid growth, not areas where gas well drilling was taking place. Now both types of area are being examined.

We have been surveying and finding new wild trout streams in the SE part of the state for 25 years or more with the idea of trying to stay ahead of development. The only thing new about this for our region is that the protocols have been streamlined; therefore, more surveys can be conducted per unit time than had been conducted in the past.

Statewide, I suspect that new Class A streams not are being added to the statewide list at a faster pace than they had been in the past.

 

[JackM]

Mike can you answer plainly, or ask a colleague to do so, this question:

May a private citizen of the Commonwealth plant hatchery raised trout in Commonwealth waters designated "Class A" without the PFBC's permission? If not, what regulation or regulations support the prohibition?

This would mean placing the trout within the boundaries of any section designated Class A.

I think you answered PFBC's feelings about stocking in adjacent sections.

 

[tomgamber]

Thanks for the clarification Mike. As for the explanation as to why they are doing this...I find it unfortunate that I was incorrect in understanding that the potential effects of drilling are not the reason. The PFBC is missing an opportunity to help stop a negative impact before it occurs.

 

[Mike]

Jack,
Since you live in SW Pa., here is the contact info for the educational outreach personnel at the SW Regional Law Enforcement Office in Somerset. I expect that that individual will either answer directly or ask the Law Enforcement supervisors at that office to answer your question. I would recommend that you just copy your questions to this individual. I would refer you to the individual by name, but I don't know who covers the educational outreach in SW Pa.

ra-swedureach@state.pa.us

 

[Chaz]

I've caught enough wild trout in Cold Run over the years to know that the trout population is way up and warrents being surveyed for it's current status. As for Sacony Creek I've never fished it I have no knowledge of it other than it has a wild trout population.
But another stream that has been surveyed and isn't on the list is Pocono Creek. Unfortunately it's nearly all on private land as such it wouldn't have many advocates. It is threatened by development and literally being overrun by greed along the rt 611 corridor.

 

[schttrout]

I think what happens in cold run is the brookies move down into the stocked water in the winter. From experiance the class A section is a higher population once summer comes and the bigger stocked water has more brookies in the winter. The stocked section is most likely class A though. Certainly if it wasnt stocked it would be. A stream that has cool summer temperatures and good habitat should be able to maintain class A status below its headwaters in my opinion the stocked section is great brookie water.

 

[Mike]

Electrofishing in late winter has shown that just the opposite is what is apparently happening. Few adult wild brook trout are present in the stocked section of Cold Run while the upper part of stocked stretch of Beaver Ck is loaded. Beaver was a stocked section at the time of the study. The point here is that it is most likely that the brookies move upstream for the winter in this system.

This would be consistent with previous studies that have been done statewide that have flown in the face of what some anglers on this board have claimed...that the wild trout in freestone streams are exposed to substantial fishing pressure and harvest on opening day or weekend such that they don't recover for the rest of the season. This "truism" is not supported by not one, but two different studies looking at different aspects. First, electrofishing wild trout streams showed that adult trout biomass and abundance is much lower just before opening day than they are later in the summer of the same year. Second, the statewide creel survey documented low fishing pressure and harvest on wild trout streams, so even if opening weekend pressure and harvest were greater, the overall effect was negligible. Angler counts that I saw were not very high on opening day on wild trout streams and neither was the harvest, although there was some.

 

[osprey]

This is a very interesting issue and there is a ton of grey area to wander around in. Most of the co-ops in this area of the state , swpa , are on class A or tribs os class A and in the case of these , how much closer do you think you could get to a wild fish than one raised right there in the same water with the same chemical make up and temp and ph etc. Most of those co-ops raise quality fish in quality water and then stock them in that water , genetics is a problem that could easily be rectified. I also know a few places where there are private hatcheries on class A streams? How does that work?

 

[troutbert]

Mike wrote:

First, electrofishing wild trout streams showed that adult trout biomass and abundance is much lower just before opening day than they are later in the summer of the same year.

What is going on with the trout that explains those field findings? Do you and the other biologists know, or have any good theories?

Is it that the number of adult trout is higher later in the summer simply because you have a large group that grow through the summer enough that they cross the line that defines adult trout vs juvenile trout? Or is something else involved?