Posting the Saucon Creek

[mcneishm]

Those of you familiar with the Saucon Creek below the Rt. 412 bridge down to the Lehigh River know that it is quality water. In my estimation, the best water on the stream. I have fished it for years. Never caught a lot of trout but caught consistently larger fish than anywhere else on the stream, indeed than anywhere else in the Lehigh Valley.

That said, that stretch, from the Rt. 412 bridge downstream to the Lehigh is about to be posted. There has apparently been some vandalism and theft from the Bethlehem Sewage Treatment Plant this spring. I was also told that they've removed a lot of trash, beer bottles and such, apparently from night time parties by the locals. I have not personally seen that kind of trash there but I've only been on that stretch 3 times this Spring.

Before last year, it was very uncommon to even see a boot print there. I'd very occasionally see another fly fisherman, but that was it. The pandemic brought people to that stretch, more than I had ever seen, ever. Now, apparently, the pigs have ruined it for everyone.

So, anyone have any suggestions on what could be done? I've often thought that it should be included in the trophy trout water than ends at the 412 bridge. That might bring more eyes on the area and keep the BS down.

The area is controlled by the City of Bethlehem Water Department. Does anyone think it would be worthwhile to talk to them?

 

[larkmark]

It's too bad. I hate hearing this. Since this is owned by the public water dept. you would like to think the paying public might have a say on wether it is closed. These days with cameras you would think the offenders could be easily caught. Why not prosecute those responsible rather than just shutting it down!

 

[Bamboozle]

With all of the development and ownership changes in that area since the days when I fished there, (which was a LONG, time ago), I’m surprised ANY of it is still open…

If you heard that the entire stretch from Route 412 down to the mouth is going to be posted, you have six different property owners to contact or more research to do.

The various parcels the Saucon passes through from Route 412 to the mouth are owned by:

Lehigh Valley Industrial Park Inc.

Lehigh Valley Rail Management

Liberty Property

Bethlehem City

Liquid Carbonic

Norfolk Southern RR

If you heard just the Bethlehem City Sewage Treatment portion was going to be posted, that is only from the top end of the Walmart warehouse to Applebutter Road.

As far as asking permission from the entities who own the property…

…good luck!!!

 

[mcneishm]

larkmark wrote:
It's too bad. I hate hearing this. Since this is owned by the public water dept. you would like to think the paying public might have a say on whether it is closed. These days with cameras you would think the offenders could be easily caught. Why not prosecute those responsible rather than just shutting it down!

To my knowledge, there are no cameras on the sewage treatment plant property. If there are, I can't see them. I asked why Bethlehem PD has not patrolled the area and got a shrug from the guy I talked to.

 

[mcneishm]

Bamboozle wrote:


If you heard that the entire stretch from Route 412 down to the mouth is going to be posted, you have six different property owners to contact or more research to do . . .

If you heard just the Bethlehem City Sewage Treatment portion was going to be posted, that is only from the top end of the Walmart warehouse to Applebutter Road.

As far as asking permission from the entities who own the property…

…good luck!!!

It was unclear to me whether this was the entire stretch from 412 to the Lehigh or only that owned/controlled by Bethlehem Water. The guy I talked with was only a maintenance guy who saw me fishing in the pool behind the plant so he may only know what he's been told.

When you say the the Bethlehem portion goes from the top end of the Walmart warehouse, where, specifically, is that?

 

[Bamboozle]

More or less at the bottom end of the sewage treatment plant property line which is more or less even with that end of the warehouse.

Bottom line, the City of Bethlehem owned portion is only the portion of the Saucon where the stream kicks out and goes around the sewage treatment plant.

That is no more than 25% length of the stream from Route 412 to the mouth. Whether the OTHER owners are keen on folks fishing the remaining 75% is open to speculation.

As far as the cops go, in all honesty with Wind Creek, problems in South Side and Saucon Park, they have their hands full.

Unless someone calls and complains as it is happening, I doubt they would respond or patrol that area.

 

[Mike]

There is no need for special regs in that stretch. The pattern so common across Pa is that the trophy fish are generally outside of the special reg areas but on the same stream! Larger fish have been present year after year. If there is harvest occurring there, and I have no reason to think that there isn’t at times, then they are being replaced naturally. As others have said here, and I only reiterate, the special regs attract anglers, so I fail to see how that would be beneficial to private landowners when there may be more benign ways for the PFBC, once informed, to help with the situation. I have already provided the op info to them and the response listing landowners.

In addition, “trophy” may soon mean 18” and if the PFBC is honest (via the program name) about those streams’ trout populations’ length distributions, the streams that still qualify as trophy streams may see more use, not less, and more people seeking large fish, not less. Landowners may not like that. From a fish population size distribution standpoint on this stretch, if it isn’t broken, don’t try to fix it with a restrictive reg. As stated, this is a social problem, not a biological one, and as we have seen in the Codorus Trophy Trout stretch as recently reiterated here, trophy trout special reg anglers have had a questionable record with private landowners there. Codorus possibly could have done no worse under statewide regs; it probably would have seen a lot less pressure.

 

[mcneishm]

With respect to special regs on this stretch, I personally have never wanted to see it but in this instance, it might provide more eyes on the area to prevent some of the shenanigans. I agree that it would bring more pressure to the stream.

The person to whom I spoke said they had cleaned up tons of beer bottles and trash from parties. I have to say that I've never seen any of the piles of trash to which this guy referred in the last two years. Aside from that, it's an area that's very difficult to get into; those who are looking to have a shindig would have to carry a case of beer and whatever else they had over some rough terrain and heavy brush.

There was a time, before the lane back into the lower end was chained off, that people dumped all sort of trash back there but they weren't having parties. However, in terms of debris left over from parties and night time sleepovers with fires, I have never seen anything like that. The plant folks could have picked up the trash but the evidence from the fires would have been hard to get rid of. I was glad it was chained off even tho it meant walking further.

If I had to guess, I'd say the main reason Bethlehem is posting their section, assuming that's all that gets posted, is because of the vandalism. According to the guy I talked to, someone stole the big brass pins that hold the emergency outflow gate that's at the top end of the big pool immediately back of the plant and tried to take them at another outflow gate. If Bethlehem PD is not going to patrol the area or respond, then putting up signs will do nothing to prevent other vandalism.

The City stopped the BS on the trophy trout section below the bridge where Silvex Road crosses the stream by putting up a fence, signs, and having Bethlehem PD patrol the area.

 

[Jaybird]

Brass pins? , really sounds like homeless grabbing scrap metal and I believe there are more homeless there than parties . If the wind blows the wrong way that ain't no party down there.

 

[Sylvaneous]

Then it sounds like it wouldn't be a problem to fish it if there isn't any patrolling.
Do they know that fishermen will narc on polluters and garbage-dumpers?
Free patrolling.
Not very thoughtful.
It was always pretty hard for me to fish. I did it a few times but it was hard to get around.
I used to work at what was Praxair. We'd catch NICE browns out in the Lehigh in the current of the Saucon.

The Lehigh valley still has tremendous potential.

Syl

 

[tabasco_joe]

My guess is that by posting they simply investigate and possibly charge anyone found on property without permission.

I would think the best approach to maintain access is to have a local TU group involved in discussions and possibly sponsor some trash cleaning efforts.

 

[Vaughn]

mcneishm wrote:


I was also told that they've removed a lot of trash, beer bottles and such, apparently from night time parties by the locals.

The cynic in me wonders if the sewer authority allowed all the riparian vegetation grow back, would that make the area less desirable for the local partiers?

 

[mcneishm]

The trash from partiers was at the mouth of the stream where it dumps into the Lehigh and where the plant outflow is. There has been neither partying nor trash in the areas where the trees were removed.

 

[Vaughn]

Ahh.. Gotcha.

 

[Zak]

This is rather ridiculous. First, that whole area in general is a complete dump. The homeless population throughout that section is relatively high and the riff raff that hangs out there is even higher. The issue isn't remotely with fishermen but like many landowners they want to blame it on everybody rather than the root of the cause. Hopefully it can be worked out. I agree wholeheartedly with Mike that special regulations aren't the answer for that stretch because it's just going to turn it into the park which is a circus atmosphere most days. Special regulations are the bane of the existence of Pennsylvania trout streams. There's virtually no need for them anywhere......... Not to morph this into another discussion lol.

 

[mcneishm]

I'm curious where you saw either homeless people or evidence.of them on this stretch of the stream.

 

[Jaybird]

Saucon come for the Casino transients stay for the occasional murder .

 

[Zak]

There is typically a homeless camp right around the mouth of the east branch behind the STP or at least there was the last two times I was there after the big floods in september.

 

[mcneishm]

In all the years I've fished this stretch of the Saucon, I have never seen any evidence of homeless camps either at the mouth of the east Branch or anywhere else from there up to the 412 bridge. There was a time, up until 2 years ago when the city finally chained off the lane at Applebutter Road, that illegal dumping occurred back at the mouth of the East Branch. All of that has disappeared since then. Keep in mind that I fish this stretch of the Saucon almost exclusively. I am there probably 2 dozen times or more generally between March and October and sometimes later/earlier.

 

[mute]

Looks pretty homeless sheltery to me, spot on at the EB.