Possible new regs..

[mute]

New regulations for trout fishing and management in Pennsylvania are up for discussion when the Fisheries and Hatcheries Committee of the Pennsylvania Fish and Boat Commission meets in an online-only session at 2 p.m. Thursday, January 7.

Those changes under discussion will include exemptions to a proposed end of trout stocking into a dozen Class A Wild Trout Streams, the creation of a harvest slot limit for trout that would allow the harvest of trout under and above a middle size range, and changes to extended trout season regulations.

 

[wildtrout2]

Thanks for the info. Sounds interesting.

 

[lycoflyfisher]

https://www.fishandboat.com/AboutUs/MinutesAgendas/Pages/default.aspx

The agenda and some exhibit items can be found here. Thenstoxking exemption for Class A streams has been discussed at the past couple quarterly Commission meetings. It appears they are now providing specific examples where said exemptions may apply.

 

[PennKev]

Where did you see the slot limit proposal? I only saw a proposal for increasing the trophy trout size limit.

(I went through the proposals very quickly)

 

[lycoflyfisher]

The following is listed as a discussion item to be discussed at the April Commission Meeting:

"-Creation of a harvest slot limit program for trout.
-Amendments to 58 Pa. Code § 65.26 (Extended Trout Season)"

 

[mute]

Amendment to 58 Pa. Code § 57.8a (Class A Wild Trout Streams).
Commentary:
Class A wild trout streams represent the best of this Commonwealth’s wild trout
resources, and approximately 3% of all flowing waters in this Commonwealth qualify for
this designation. As of November 28, 2020, there are 1,037 Class A stream sections that
comprise 2,766 stream miles in this Commonwealth. Following designation by the Board
of Commissioners, Class A wild trout streams enter a process whereby the Department of
Environmental Protection will ultimately designate these streams sections as High
Quality, Cold Water Fishes under 25 Pa. Code Chapter 93 (relating to water quality
standards). This designation provides additional water quality protection under the
Commonwealth’s environmental laws and regulations. As such, a Class A designation is
an important mechanism to properly protect, conserve, and enhance wild trout
populations and the quality of their habitats.
On September 30, 2014 (effective January 1, 2015), the statement of policy at § 57.8a
was amended to require the Executive Director to obtain approval from the Pennsylvania
Fish and Boat Commission (Commission) prior to granting permission to stock a Class A
wild trout stream section. Following the update to § 57.8a, staff developed internal
decision-making criteria to allow continued Commission stocking of a limited number of
Class A wild trout stream sections. Under these criteria, stream sections that the
Commission designates as Class A wild trout streams after December 31, 2014, may
remain eligible for stocking with adult and fingerling trout by the Commission to provide
additional angling opportunities, provided that the following criteria conditions are met.
1. The stream section was stocked with adult trout during the year immediately prior to
its designation as a Class A wild trout stream.
2. Angler use (anglers/mile of stream) in the stream section equals or exceeds the
statewide 50th percentile of angler use for the opening weekend of trout season as
documented by Commission staff, or the stream section is a special regulation area
under Chapter 65 (relating to special fishing regulations) that was stocked by the
Commission the year immediately prior to its designation as a Class A wild trout
stream.
3. The trout species to be stocked are not the same species as the primary component of
the wild trout population.
4. The stocking numbers and frequency will not exceed those of the year prior to the
Class A designation.
5. A stream section managed for wild Brook Trout will not be considered for stocking.
Fisheries and Hatcheries Committee Meeting Page 8
January 7, 2021
Attachment 1
6. Prior to implementing a decision to stock a Class A wild trout stream, the Executive
Director will obtain the approval of the Commission.
Subsequently, 13 stream sections suspected to support strong Class A wild Brown Trout
populations were officially designated as Class A wild trout streams during the 2015-
2017 timeframe following updated wild trout surveys, and stocking was continued.
Commission staff believe there are very few additional waters in this Commonwealth that
would meet the current, internal decision-making criteria used to consider continued
stocking of Class A wild trout streams. The 13 Class A wild trout stream sections where
stocking continued are heavily fished streams in high-density human population centers
of a size and character that can support a fishery featuring both stocked and wild trout
components. Common to these waters are robust wild Brown Trout populations, which
continue to maintain strong Class A fisheries in the presence of stocking and high angler
use. The management approach for these waters includes limiting species stocked to
Rainbow Trout, which are easier to catch, rarely develop into a wild population in this
Commonwealth, would not genetically impact the existing wild Brown Trout population,
and could serve to satisfy anglers that prefer to fish for stocked trout during the early part
of trout season.
Historically, there have been very few streams where stocking of trout following Class A
designation was considered and warranted. Occasionally, there may be pre-existing
youth fishing derbies or clubs and/or private landowners that are not aware a stream
section was designated as Class A and unknowingly continue to stock illicitly.
Additionally, it is often unknown to Commission staff where private stockings have
occurred. This information may become apparent only when the next private stocking is
planned, and the landowner discovers a Class A designation has occurred. Therefore,
there may be rare cases where a stocking exemption should be considered.
As such, Commission staff have developed additional internal decision-making criteria to
account for these types of rare circumstances to consider internal and external requests
for continued stocking of newly designated Class A wild trout streams. These criteria
will provide Commission staff direction to guide decisions when unusual situations arise,
but will not automatically result in continued stocking when criteria are met, as the vast
majority of Class A stream sections are best managed solely for wild trout with no
stocking. They will offer a mechanism for transparent, timely, and consistent
consideration of requests to continue the stocking of newly designated Class A wild trout
streams. These criteria will be detailed in the Operational Guidelines for the
Management of Trout Fisheries in Pennsylvania Waters, 5th edition anticipated to be
released in January 2021 and available at www.fishandboat.com. Listed below are
several scenarios that may be considered for an exemption.
1. Pre-existing youth fishing derbies and special use areas that were properly permitted
by the Commission and have a history of more than one past occurrence.
Fisheries and Hatcheries Committee Meeting Page 9
January 7, 2021
Attachment 1
2. Pre-existing private stockings on private property on recently designated (i.e., within
one year of posting in the Pennsylvania Bulletin) Class A stream sections that have
been closed to public angling at the time of Class A designation and at least since
2010. Historic stockings need to be verifiable by documentation, stocking records,
and a history of more than one past occurrence.
3. Stream sections stocked by the Commission, a cooperative nursery, and/or a private
group or individual the year prior to Class A designation and a history of more than
one past occurrence, and which meet the Commission’s Class A stocking criteria
developed for the 13 Class A streams sections stocked by the Commission. These
criteria currently guide staff consideration when making recommendations regarding
the continuance of stocking a Class A wild trout stream section and were specifically
developed for high-use, urban, and suburban stream sections that support robust Class
A wild Brown Trout populations. Stocked species are limited to Rainbow Trout, and
the number stocked will remain at or below the levels stocked at the time of Class A
designation. Some stream sections may be better managed solely for wild trout in the
future; therefore, trout stocking may not occur in perpetuity.
4. Stream sections which previously received an exemption or a Special Activities
Permit from the Commission between 2010 and the present to allow for continued
stocking of a Class A wild trout stream section. If the exemption was time-limited
and not renewed before expiration, it will be considered a new request and a
determination will be made according to current exemption criteria.
Exemptions to the prohibition of stocking hatchery trout into Class A wild trout stream
sections would be granted only under rare circumstances. Consideration would only be
given to requests for continued stocking in stream sections within one year of the section
being designated as Class A and posted in the Pennsylvania Bulletin; however, entities
that previously received an exemption or a Special Activities Permit from the
Commission between 2010 and the present to allow for continued stocking would be
eligible for consideration. Should an exemption be granted, the agency would determine
the species of trout, number of trout, and frequency of stocking consistent with stocking
strategies and historical stocking rates of the stream section to minimize impacts to the
Class A wild trout population. No exemptions will be granted for streams where a
component of the wild trout fishery is comprised of wild Brook Trout.
Staff propose that 58 Pa. Code § 57.8a be amended as follows:
§ 57.8a. Class A wild trout streams.
* * * * *
It is the policy of the Commission to manage self-sustaining Class A wild trout
populations as a renewable natural resource to conserve that resource and the angling it
provides. Class A wild trout populations represent the best of this Commonwealth’s
Fisheries and Hatcheries Committee Meeting Page 10
January 7, 2021
Attachment 1
naturally reproducing trout fisheries. With rare exceptions, these stream sections are
managed solely for the perpetuation of the wild trout fishery with no stocking. [There]
However, there may be circumstances that justify stocking a Class A wild trout stream.
Prior to granting permission to stock a Class A wild trout stream under § 71.4 (relating to
stocking of designated waters), the Executive Director will consult decision-making
criteria set forth in the Operational Guidelines for the Management of Trout Fisheries
in Pennsylvania Waters to consider the need for continued stocking at newly
designated Class A wild trout streams and obtain the approval of the Commission.
Consideration will only be given to requests for continued stocking in stream
sections within one year of the section being designated as Class A and posted in the
Pennsylvania Bulletin; however, entities that previously received an exemption or a
Special Activities Permit for continued stocking from the Commission between 2010
and the effective date of this amendment will be eligible for consideration.
A notice of proposed rulemaking was published at 50 Pa.B. 6903 (December 5, 2020)
(Exhibit D). The public comment period for this proposal is still open; therefore, a final
comment summary is not provided here. A summary of all public comments will be
communicated during the January 25, 2021 Commission meeting.
Briefer:
Kristopher M. Kuhn, Director, Bureau of Fisheries
Recommendation:
Staff recommend the Commission adopt the amendment as set forth in the notice of
proposed rulemaking. If adopted, the amendment will go into effect upon publication of
a second notice in the Pennsylvania Bulletin.

 

[mute]

Amendments to 58 Pa. Code § 65.4a (All-Tackle Trophy Trout) and § 65.7 (Trophy Trout
Artificial Lures Only).
Commentary:
Per Issue 15 detailed in the Strategic Plan for the Management of Trout Fisheries in
Pennsylvania 2020-2024, Pennsylvania Fish and Boat Commission (Commission) staff
evaluated the All-Tackle Trophy Trout and Trophy Trout Artificial Lures Only programs
to determine if refinements were needed. Currently, both regulations allow for the
harvest of two trout, per day, greater than or equal to 14 inches in length, from opening
day of trout season through Labor Day, with catch-and-release angling for the remainder
of the year. Trophy Trout regulations are applied to some wild trout and fingerlingstocked waters and were established decades ago when a 14-inch trout was substantially
larger than an average-sized hatchery fish, and perhaps was considered a “trophy” at that
time. These regulations provide inadequate protection to the largest trout in the
population, as harvest of trout greater than or equal to 14 inches in length is permitted in
streams managed with these regulations. Given that a 14-inch trout no longer constitutes
a “trophy” fish for most anglers, and these regulations focus harvest on the largest fish in
the population which are most desired by anglers and are biologically important to
maintain in the population, Commission staff propose an adjustment to the minimum size
and daily creel limit that will still allow anglers to harvest a large trout if they so choose,
but also provides increased protection to a majority of the larger trout in streams managed
with Trophy Trout regulations.
Commission staff recommend amending the All-Tackle Trophy Trout and Trophy Trout
Artificial Lures Only regulations to allow the harvest of one trout per day greater than or
equal to 18 inches in length from opening day of trout season through Labor Day, with
catch-and-release angling for the remainder of the year. This size and creel limit were
thoroughly researched by staff through evaluation of Commission data, review of trout
regulations in other states, and discussions among fisheries managers in this
Commonwealth and elsewhere. The proposed changes received strong support during
previous wild trout workgroups, were supported by the results of a survey conducted at
the 2017 Wild Trout Summit, and are supported biologically through Commission data.
Implementing a size restriction above 18 inches would essentially equate to catch-andrelease regulations based on the size distribution of fish in these streams. A total of 11
waters are currently included in the Trophy Trout regulation program and most are
destination waters that receive high angler use from resident and non-resident anglers.
Staff propose that 58 Pa. Code § 65.4a be amended as follows:
Fisheries and Hatcheries Committee Meeting Page 12
January 7, 2021
Attachment 1
§ 65.4a. All-Tackle Trophy Trout.
* * * * *
(b) It is unlawful to fish in designated and posted all-tackle trophy trout areas except in
compliance with the following requirements.
(1) Open to fishing year-round.
(2) There are no tackle restrictions
(3) Minimum size is: [14] 18 inches, caught on, or in possession on, the waters under
regulation.
(4) The daily creel limit is: [two trout – combined species] one trout except for the
period from the day after Labor Day to 8 a.m. of the first Saturday after April 11
of the following year, when trout may not be killed or had in possession.
(5) A current trout/salmon permit is required.
Staff propose that 58 Pa. Code § 65.7 be amended as follows:
§ 65.7. Trophy Trout Artificial Lures Only.
* * * * *
(b) It is unlawful to fish in areas designated and posted trophy trout artificial lures only
except in compliance with the following requirements:
(1) Fishing may be done with artificial lures only, constructed of metal, plastic,
rubber, or wood, or with flies or streamers constructed of natural or synthetic
materials. Lures may be used with spinning or fly-fishing gear. Use or
possession of other lures or substances is prohibited.
(2) Open to fishing year round.
(3) The minimum size is: [14] 18 inches, caught on or in possession on the waters
under regulation.
(4) The daily creel limit is [two trout – combined species – ] one trout except
during the period from the day after Labor Day to 8 a.m. of the first Saturday after
April 11 of the following year, when no trout may be killed or had in possession
on the waters under regulation.
(5) Taking of bait fish or fish bait is prohibited.
(6) A current trout/salmon permit is required.
Briefer:
Kristopher M. Kuhn, Director, Bureau of Fisheries
Recommendation:
Staff recommend the Commission approve the publication of a notice of proposed
rulemaking containing the amendment described in the Commentary. If approved on
final rulemaking, the amendments will go into effect on January 1, 2022.

 

[mute]

Proposed changes to the list of Class A wild trout streams.
Commentary:
Pursuant to 58 Pa. Code § 57.8a (relating to Class A wild trout streams), it is the
Commission’s policy to manage self-sustaining Class A wild trout populations as a
renewable natural resource to conserve that resource and the angling it provides. Class A
wild trout populations represent the best of Pennsylvania’s naturally reproducing trout
populations. Criteria developed for Class A wild trout populations are species specific.
Wild trout biomass class criteria include provisions for wild Brook Trout, wild Brown
Trout, mixed wild Brook Trout and Brown Trout, wild Rainbow Trout, mixed wild Brook
Trout and Rainbow Trout, and mixed wild Brown Trout and Rainbow Trout populations.
Staff recommend the addition of 25 stream sections to the Commission’s list of Class A
wild trout streams. These changes are the result of recent surveys conducted on these
waters and subsequent data review. Exhibit E provides information on the locations and
a data summary for each of these waters.
A notice of proposed designations was published at 50 Pa.B. 6744 (November 21, 2020)
(Exhibit F). The public comment period for this proposal is still open; therefore, a final
comment summary is not provided here. A summary of all public comments will be
communicated during the January 25, 2021 Commission meeting.
Briefer:
Kristopher M. Kuhn, Director, Bureau of Fisheries
Recommendation:
Staff recommend that the Commission add 25 stream sections to its Class A wild trout
streams list as described in the Commentary. If approved, these additions will go into
effect upon publication of a second notice in the Pennsylvania Bulletin.

 

[mute]

Classification of wild trout streams: proposed additions, revisions, and amendment.
Commentary:
The Department of Environmental Protection’s regulations at 25 Pa. Code § 105.1 define
the term “wild trout stream” as “a stream identified as supporting naturally reproducing
trout populations by the Pennsylvania Fish and Boat Commission (Commission) under 58
Pa. Code § 57.11 (relating to listing of wild trout streams).” This term has regulatory
significance because wetlands that are located in or along the floodplain of the reach of a
wild trout stream and the floodplain of streams tributary thereto are considered
“exceptional value” and are thus entitled to the highest level of protection.
The Commission adopted a statement of policy at 58 Pa. Code § 57.11 that sets forth the
basis for the classification of streams supporting the natural reproduction of trout. Under
§ 57.11, it is the policy of the Commission to accurately identify and classify stream
sections supporting naturally reproducing populations of trout as wild trout streams. The
listing of a stream section as a wild trout stream is a biological designation that does not
determine how the stream is managed. The statement of policy provides that the
Commission’s Fisheries Management Division will maintain the list of wild trout streams
and that the Executive Director, with approval of the Commission, will from time to time
publish the list of wild trout streams in the Pennsylvania Bulletin and solicit public
comments.
Staff recommend the addition of 26 new waters to the Commission’s list of wild trout
streams, revision to the section limits of eight waters currently listed, and an amendment
to the name of one water currently listed. These changes are the result of recent surveys
conducted on these waters. Exhibit G provides information on the locations and a data
summary for each of these waters. Surveying unassessed waters and documenting wild
trout populations are consistent with the Commission’s Strategic Plan for Management of
Trout Fisheries in Pennsylvania, the statewide Strategic Plan, and the agency’s Resource
First philosophy.
A notice of proposed designations was published at 50 Pa.B. 6742 (November 21, 2020)
(Exhibit H). The public comment period for this proposal is still open; therefore, a final
comment summary is not provided here. A summary of all public comments will be
communicated during the January 25, 2021 Commission meeting.
Briefer:
Kristopher M. Kuhn, Director, Bureau of Fisheries
Recommendation:
Staff recommend that the Commission add 26 new waters to the Commission’s list of
wild trout streams, revise the section limits of eight waters currently listed, and amend the
name of one water currently listed as set forth in the notice of proposed designations. If
approved, these additions will go into effect upon publication of a second notice in the
Pennsylvania Bulletin.

 

[mute]

Proposed exemptions to 58 Pa. Code § 57.8a (Class A Wild Trout Streams) to allow for the
continued stocking of trout at 12 Class A stream sections.
Commentary:
On September 30, 2014 (effective January 1, 2015), the statement of policy at 58 Pa.
Code § 57.8a (Class A Wild Trout Streams) was amended to require the Executive
Director to obtain approval from the Pennsylvania Fish and Boat Commission
(Commission) prior to granting permission to stock a Class A wild trout stream section.
Following the update to § 57.8a, staff developed internal decision-making criteria to
allow continued Commission stocking of a limited number of Class A wild trout stream
sections. Subsequently, 13 stream sections that support strong Class A wild Brown Trout
populations were officially designated as Class A wild trout streams during the 2015-
2017 timeframe following updated wild trout surveys, and stocking was continued. The
stream sections where stocking continued are heavily fished waters in high-density
human population centers of a size and character that can support a fishery featuring both
stocked and wild trout components.
Historically, there have been very few streams where stocking of trout following Class A
designation was considered and warranted. However, there are rare cases, beyond the
current 13 stocked Class A wild trout stream sections, where a stocking exemption should
be considered. To account for these rare circumstances, staff developed additional
decision-making criteria to consider internal and external requests for continued stocking
of newly designated Class A wild trout streams. These criteria provide staff direction to
guide decisions when unusual situations arise, but do not automatically result in
continued stocking when criteria are met, as most Class A stream sections are best
managed solely for wild trout with no stocking. They offer a mechanism for transparent,
timely, and consistent consideration of requests to continue the stocking of newly
designated Class A wild trout streams. These criteria, listed below, can also be found in
the Operational Guidelines for the Management of Trout Fisheries in Pennsylvania
Waters, 5th edition anticipated to be released in January 2021 and available at
www.fishandboat.com.
1. Pre-existing youth fishing derbies and special use areas that were properly permitted
by the Commission and have a history of more than one past occurrence.
2. Pre-existing private stockings on private property on recently designated (i.e., within
one year of posting in the Pennsylvania Bulletin) Class A stream sections that have
been closed to public angling at the time of Class A designation and at least since
2010. Historic stockings need to be verifiable by documentation, stocking records,
and have a history of more than one past occurrence.
Agenda: January 2021 Page 22
January 7, 2021
Attachment 1
3. Stream sections stocked by the Commission, a cooperative nursery, and/or a private
group or individual the year prior to Class A designation, have a history of more than
one past occurrence, and meet the following sub-criteria.
a) The stream section was stocked with adult trout during the year immediately prior
to its designation as a Class A wild trout stream.
b) Angler use (anglers/mile of stream) in the stream section equals or exceeds the
statewide 50th percentile of angler use for the opening weekend of trout season as
documented by Commission staff, or the stream section is a special regulation
area under 58 Pa. Code Chapter 65 (relating to special fishing regulations) that
was stocked by the Commission the year immediately prior to its designation as a
Class A wild trout stream.
c) The trout species to be stocked are not the same species as the primary component
of the wild trout population.
d) The stocking numbers and frequency will not exceed those of the year prior to the
Class A designation.
4. Stream sections which previously received an exemption or a Special Activities
Permit from the Commission between 2010 and the present to allow for continued
stocking of a Class A wild trout stream section. If the exemption was time-limited
and not renewed before expiration, it will be considered a new request and a
determination will be made according to other exemption criteria.
Exemptions to the prohibition of stocking hatchery trout into Class A wild trout stream
sections will be granted only under rare circumstances. Consideration is only given to
requests for continued stocking in stream sections within one year of the section being
designated as Class A and posted in the Pennsylvania Bulletin; however, entities that
previously received an exemption or a Special Activities Permit from the Commission
between 2010 and the present to allow for continued stocking are eligible for
consideration. Should an exemption be granted, the Commission will determine the
species of trout, number of trout, and frequency of stocking consistent with stocking
strategies and historical stocking rates of the stream section to minimize impacts to the
Class A wild trout population. All stocking provisions will be communicated in writing
by the Commission to the entity receiving the exemption for continued stocking on Class
A designated waters. Stocking exemptions will be valid for no more than five years at
which time the need for continuance may be evaluated.
To date, Commission staff have identified 13 potential exemptions to 58 Pa. Code §
57.8a (Class A Wild Trout Streams) that meet the criteria to consider the continuance of
trout stocking at 12 Class A stream sections. Of these 13 potential exemptions, 10 are
associated with youth fishing derbies that occur on a small portion of the stream section.
The general exemption classification, stream name, stream section, county, and
commissioner district are listed below.
Agenda: January 2021 Page 23
January 7, 2021
Attachment 1
Youth fishing derbies
1) Beaver Run (Section 01), Clearfield County, Commissioner District 3
2) Freeman Run (Section 03), Potter County, Commissioner District 3
3) McElhattan Creek (Section 02), Clinton County, Commissioner District 3
4) Yellow Creek (Section 02), Bedford County, Commissioner District 4
5) Letort Spring Run (Section 03), Cumberland County, Commissioner District 6
(two events)
6) Laurel Run (Section 02), Berks County, Commissioner District 8
7) Unnamed tributary to Tulpehocken Creek (Womelsdorf) (Section 02), Berks
County, Commissioner District 8
8) Wyomissing Creek (Section 03), Berks County, Commissioner District 8
General fishing derbies (adult and youth participants)
9) Kishacoquillas Creek (Section 05), Mifflin County, Commissioner District 4
Children/Disabled Fishing Areas
10) Marvin Creek (Section 01), McKean County, Commissioner District 3
Previous stocking exemption granted
11) Cross Fork (Section 03), Potter County, Commissioner District 3
12) Warriors Mark Run (Section 01), Huntingdon County, Commissioner District 4
A notice of proposed exemptions was published at 50 Pa.B. 7254 (December 19, 2020)
(Exhibit J). The public comment period for this proposal is still open; therefore, a final
comment summary is not provided here. A summary of all public comments will be
communicated during the January 25, 2021 Commission meeting.
Briefer:
Kristopher M. Kuhn, Director, Bureau of Fisheries
Recommendation:
Agenda: January 2021 Page 24
January 7, 2021
Attachment 1
Staff recommend the Commission approve 13 exemptions to 58 Pa. Code § 57.8a (Class
A Wild Trout Streams) to allow for the continued stocking of trout at 12 Class A stream
sections as described in the Commentary.

 

[mute]

I highlighted all the high level statements that stuck out to me.

 

[silverfox]

This has been going on since November. It was approved, so I assume this is all just formalizing the change.

I still disagree with this. There should be NO stocking in Class A sections or streams for ANY reason whatsoever. It seems irresponsible to me to allow damage to a resource because people want to.

Also, kids aren't the ones asking for the stocking. It's adults. Find another stream to hold the derby in.

 

[PennKev]

lycoflyfisher wrote:
The following is listed as a discussion item to be discussed at the April Commission Meeting:

"-Creation of a harvest slot limit program for trout.
-Amendments to 58 Pa. Code § 65.26 (Extended Trout Season)"

Ok, that was for continuing the Penns Creek regs that had been previously implemented. I was hoping to find more waters being considered for such regs on the current agenda.

 

[lycoflyfisher]

PennKev, the bullet points I shared are at the bottom of the Agenda. The way I interpret it is that it is a new discussion and basically introducing the issue for more formal discussion in April.

If you are able to watch todays meeting via Facebook live or the youtube feed afterwards, we will get a better understanding of that discussion.

 

[bigjohn58]

mute wrote:
New regulations for trout fishing and management in Pennsylvania are up for discussion when the Fisheries and Hatcheries Committee of the Pennsylvania Fish and Boat Commission meets in an online-only session at 2 p.m. Thursday, January 7.

Those changes under discussion will include exemptions to a proposed end of trout stocking into a dozen Class A Wild Trout Streams, the creation of a harvest slot limit for trout that would allow the harvest of trout under and above a middle size range, and changes to extended trout season regulations.

Where are the dozen Class A wild trout streams that will have stocking ended listed? I'm not seeing that anywhere. Also I only saw increase in size of trout in trophy trout regulated areas nothing about slot limits.

 

[Mike]

Lycoflyfisher in item #5 above presents the exact wording regarding the intended slot limit discussion. Words mean everything in write-ups for Commission meetings; they are reviewed and reviewed again. The word “program” is key in #5. Programs in agency lingo refer to establishing a generalized category into which more qualifying waters can be added. This is in contrast to a “miscellaneous regulation,” a list of which exists in a separate section of the Summary Booklet. Usually, miscellaneous regs pertain to a single water while programs include multiple waters right from the get-go or are established so that waters may be added in the future.

Harvestable slot limits around the country have usually been established in situations where the potential to produce more larger fish within a population is believed (based on measured growth rates) to be inhibited by an abundance (overabundance) of small, slow growing fish. In theory the harvestable slot allows enough fish to be harvested from the slot such that growth rates speed up and remaining fish quickly grow through the slot range past the protective upper limit of the slot and into a length range that is more desirable. I say “in theory” because it seldom works, most often because C&R anglers refuse to harvest the fish necessary to make the regs work.

On the other hand there are occasionally some harvestable slot limits that are placed on good growth rate populations where large fish already exist. Protection is desired for those larger fish but harvest is also desired as an objective. Harvest is then allowed to occur from smaller, more abundant size classes, that are still attractive to anglers from the standpoint of consumption. The spring striped bass slot that we established on the Delaware Estuary a half dozen years ago is a good example. And as you saw recently, the slot can flexible and be adjusted (made more conservative or liberal) according to existing population changes if governing bodies are willing to be that progressive.

 

[silverfox]

As a brook trout nut, this was thoroughly depressing to watch. Clearly, Dave Nihart and Kris Khuns have no interest in trying to protect brook trout through regulations. It sounded like they were actively arguing against any kind of brook trout protections.

Thankfully it sounds like several commissioners ARE interested in brook trout protections. I hope the commissioners gain traction and get something done even if the staff doesn't seem to have any interest in our state fish.

Ironically, while Mr. Nihart argued against regulations for brook trout because "harvest has no impact on brook trout" he later argued in favor of statewide regulations to protect brown trout in the water below STW. He referenced creel surveys on brook trout streams to justify NOT using harvest regs on brook trout streams but never referenced any creel surveys on streams below STW's to justify the regs for brown trout.

Pretty deflating. Sad.

 

[troutbert]

In PA, the practice of not stocking Class A streams dates back to about 1980.

Is that being dismantled? Is it going to be done away with?

 

[silverfox]

troutbert wrote:
In PA, the practice of not stocking Class A streams dates back to about 1980.

Is that being dismantled? Is it going to be done away with?

They didn't talk about cessation of stocking Class A's. They talked about exemptions to allow stocking Class A sections. Because the kids want stockers apparently.

 

[Mike]

Silverfox: For the record and to get everyone on the same page, is it correct for me to assume that the following is the regulation that was being discussed when Mr Nihart referenced wild brown trout?.... Only stocked trout waters and all waters downstream of stocked trout waters are open to harvest during this period with the exception of Class A wild trout streams where harvest is prohibited during the extended season.

If my assumption is correct, the regulation is consistent with the regulation that prohibits harvest from unstocked wild trout streams from the closing date in early Sept until opening day in spring. That special instruction in my opening paragraph above is needed only because all other stocked trout stream sections and sections downstream from stocked trout sections ARE open to harvest of any trout that are captured (3 trout creel limit). Class A’s are an exception. Additionally, it happens that by program design all recognized, stocked Class A’s support predominantly brown trout populations.

Kuhn and Nihart are correct. Creel survey work on 200 wild trout sections statewide showed that harvest was low. As a representative subsample of the state’s wild trout streams, the creel survey clearly demonstrated that there is no need for more conservative statewide regulations for wild trout. You can probably still find the report on the PFBC web page.

At the Wild Trout Summit I made the presentation on wild trout management, including special regs and responses of wild trout populations to stocking cessation in Pa wild trout streams. Regarding brook trout, I clearly stated, based on the data presented, that the best way to improve wild brook trout populations in Pa was not through special regs, meaning regs that differed from the present statewide regs, but through cessation of stocking over these populations. Some on this Board were there to hear that. What was inherent in my comment was some pragmatism however, specifically that the populations of ST were already or would in the future, post-stocking, be large enough to provide attractive fisheries. I wasn’t speaking about stopping stocking over populations with three wild ST per 300 meters for example, but I also wasn’t thinking about stocking cessation only over Class A ST