"Poaching" Special Reg Areas

[WCO]

“Poaching” in special reg areas is a common theme on this board. There was a thread about it on the Tully DH area a few weeks ago and a comment referenced “poachers” in another thread the other day.

I understand anglers get frustrated by others fishing bait in special reg areas, but much of the “poaching” referred to is being done by people who have no idea they are doing anything wrong in my experience. These “poachers” are usually out there in the middle of the day and rarely catch fish to be honest. They are usually fishing a special reg area because the area provides easy access, is close to home and because they only read part of the sign. I am not saying this makes it okay to not follow the rules and I am not saying there isn’t some poaching going on, but I think the poaching term gets thrown around too much on this site and is blamed all too often for poor angler catch rates in a special reg area.

For what it is worth, however, 6 tickets have been issued to 5 people for fishing the Tully DH area in the past few weeks. Only one fish was in possession of an angler. I know it might not seem like it at times, but the Tully is getting patrolled regularly – as are other special reg areas. Unfortunately, the fact of the matter is a WCO cannot spend 40 hours a week sitting on special reg areas. Again, this is not an excuse. It is just the reality of the situation.

I understand the frustration when you guys see people fishing illegally, but I am not sure the majority of the individuals fishing illegally in a special reg area are doing so with the intent to poach fish from the stream and doing as much harm to fish populations as it is believed. Don’t get me wrong, it is not right and these individuals still get tickets, but I wanted to share this insight in an effort to hopefully change the perspective/belief that everyone that fishes bait in a special reg area is doing so with the intent to clean out the stream or has cleaned out the stream.

 

[shortrod2]

WCO,

Welcome and thank you for your candor, perspective and efforts.

I have nothing else to contribute to the topic, just wanted to say thanks.

 

[JackM]

WCO wrote:
“Poaching” in special reg areas is a common theme on this board.

It certainly isn't uncommon, but I don't think it is a prevalent concern to most of us. I agree with your observations as it matches mine, but mine are extremely limited. I think those who will disagree are those who feel that their favorite waters see way too many poachers compared to what you or I might observe.

 

[Hook_Jaw]

I've never seen a wco on the stream in all the 28 years I've fished. I've also have never once witnessed poaching though it happen's I'm sure all the time. The trash oh yeah I see it all the time and more from spin/bait fisherman though I've seen a fair share of fly guy's trash as well.

 

[salvelinusfontinalis]

ive seen 2 in 27 years. i dont believe they clean out streams but they sure as heck do the opposite by leaving trash. 6 tickets in 2 weeks on the tully is poor. you could build a stream side detention center and have 3 shifts of wcos with all the money you would make from tickets.

 

[Hook_Jaw]

The fish commission also did a poor job of taking down all the old posters along Penn's trophy section I have seen 5 old posters with the old regulations on trees yet and some that were on the ground and a new poster put up I guess they just said screw it we will let it lay its time to go home for a scotch on the rocks.

 

[phiendWMD]

I'm not sure their intent really matters. The law is clear, it is illegal. If they don't take the time to read the signs or information posted online to learn the rules that is their problem. It becomes a problem for everyone else too since we are losing a resource to the poachers.

This is just my opinion and how I interpret what others are saying. I think we all understand poaching will happen or people will break the law. The part that gets under their skin is when they call to report it and nothing is done. There is no followup with the caller. What do you think happens when someone reports 5 criminals and nothing is done about it? Do you think they are going to keep trying to help or develop a negative attitude toward WCO?s

 

[foxtrapper1972]

Do you think they are going to develop a negative attitude toward WCO?s
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
yes

Especially when the same sportman/fisherman who has continually made reports of illegal activity has had negative interactions with WCOs.

 

[Coughlin]

WCO, thanks for checking in. I'm with sortrod2, welcome! Lord knows, you'll learn what folks here are thinking.

 

[poopdeck]

WCO thanks for your valued insight. I believe you are spot on correct. Nobody likes poachers but from my experience I rarely see them. Part of the problem is the seemingly inherent dislike the fly fishermen and bait fishermen seem to have. I think 6 tickets in two weeks is fantastic. Great job.

Intent is a gigantic point of law. Generally speaking There has to be intent or gross negligence to have a crime. Ignorance of the law is not a defense either but intent is critical.

 

[Bamboozle]

I have long believed that in the interest of clearing up some of the supposed mystery of PFBC signage, it would make total sense to print a secondary sign that could be posted beneath the Catch & Release Artificials Only/Fly Fishing Only sign that reads in huge letters:

NO BAIT FISHING

NO FISH MAY BE KEPT

IN THESE WATERS

It sounds simple but it would eliminate the "ignorance excuse"

While you are at it, another sign for Approved Trout streams for the idiots who think they can fish during the closed period as long as they don't harvest that reads:

NO FISHING BEFORE OPENING DAY

 

[Fishidiot]

WCO,
Your description of the typical "poacher" reflects what I usually see in my neck of the woods as well. In my experience, language barriers can sometimes be a component as well.

We have had some genuine poaching events with significant numbers of fish lost here in the Cumberland Valley over the years, but these events are fairly rare (thankfully).

The fact that the term "poacher" seems to get thrown around this message board a lot is - it seems to me - largely due to lack of a different term to describe folks breaking fishing rules. "Poacher" is just the default term and use of this term can sometimes seem trivial when, outside of our community, the word connotes serious crime with large numbers of fish or animals taken illegally, usually for profit or as part of a larger crime ring. Just semantics.

 

[Mike]

I agree with the WCO's observations and comments.

My personal observations have been that by far the primary poachers on the Tully have blue-gray bodies and wings, and their techniques are very effective. Unlike the human poachers, however, their lives and that of their young depend on the kill and their continuous presence is an indication of their success. Predators feeding inefficiently or ineffectively don't last long in nature.

 

[Coughlin]

And now for a moment of levity (sort of) not too long ago I was on the Yellow Breeches and came across a guy in the regs section. He saw me and immediately sat on the fish he was poaching. I mean he SAT on it. I can only hope his ride home was well perfumed.

Now, maybe I should have brought out my samurai nippers and clipped him on the spot but figured the lords OVER the WCOs might have thought I had usurped police authority. Anyway, threw a dirty look and kept on going.

WCOs can't be everywhere. And given today's climate, WCOs shouldn't assume every stop is routine. Sad to say, a young couple of WCOs (maybe park "rangers") on Valley Creek "jacked-up" a party of three silver-haired guys having a beer after a day on VC. It felt like the swat team would arrive any minute. Breathalyzers were administered all around. Very strange! Either they were way out of line or very scared about what they read in the papers.
Full disclosure, alcohol is not permitted in Valley Forge Park. No excuse, but the older gents, one lager each, as is our tradition.

Hummmmm

 

[Hook_Jaw]

Bam that's to much work for the fish commission to make and put up signs like that they have better things to do like a get a 5 cent shoe shine on the corner.

 

[salvelinusfontinalis]

because we are totally discussing herons :lol:

 

[McSneek]

Bamboozle wrote:
I have long believed that in the interest of clearing up some of the supposed mystery of PFBC signage, it would make total sense to print a secondary sign that could be posted beneath the Catch & Release Artificials Only/Fly Fishing Only sign that reads in huge letters:

NO BAIT FISHING

NO FISH MAY BE KEPT

IN THESE WATERS

It sounds simple but it would eliminate the "ignorance excuse"

While you are at it, another sign for Approved Trout streams for the idiots who think they can fish during the closed period as long as they don't harvest that reads:

NO FISHING BEFORE OPENING DAY

NO PESCA CEBO

Ningún pez puede mantenerse

En estas aguas

NO PESCA ANTES DE ABRIR EL DÍA

 

[McSneek]

salvelinusfontinalis wrote:
because we are totally discussing herons :lol:

Sure - lets diminish breaking the law and/or efforts to enforce it by reminding everyone how many stocked fish the herons take out of the Tully DHALO.

 

[ROVERT]

NO BAIT FISHING

NO FISH MAY BE KEPT

IN THESE WATERS

If no fish may be kept in the waters, one must assume that the fish must be taken from the waters. Even if you change it to "No fish may be taken from these waters", it still states an untruth. So maybe "No trout may be taken from these waters"? What about char?

I'm kidding about the brookies but, when you try to shorten the wording, you have to be careful about changing the meaning. I really don't see that the signs are difficult to comprehend for those familiar with English. I see no reason to double the budget needed for printing special regulation signage.

 

[Fishidiot]

FWIW: I did see a lot of herons last weekend when I was at the Tully, including one on Plum Creek. Also saw a kingfisher and a Green Heron.

However, I also saw a WCO and he appeared to be in the act of writing a citation (not 100% sure, but it looked like it).