PLASTIC FOUND IN SMALLMOUTH BASS IN RIVER

[HopBack]

We actually pay $400 a container to recycle our cardboard at work. Same with wooden pallets, we have to pay someone to haul them away as well and we just lost the account on that because we couldnt provide them with enough pallets to cover the cost of fuel to pick them up.

Recyling at this point is only done because of modern laws and mandates to help protect the environment. There is no money to be made there except in scrap metal which requires and enormus amount of enegy to process back into usable alloys. This process is likely actually worse for the environment then mining the ore to make the metals in the first place.

 

[HopBack]

What actually happens with recycled goods is they will be sold to a foreign buyer for no profit who will then in turn sell them to a processing place in India. India has not regulations for pollution and the standard wage is peanuts. This allows someone else to make a profit off of recycling. We would never be able to do this in the US.

Unfortunately at this point, US recycling for the most part is not helping anyone at all. We think we are being good stewards for recycling our plastics but we have no idea what actually happens behind the scences. We are still contributing to global pollution but we never see it so who cares right?

 

[Baron]

I've heard that a million times Hopster!
But our fuzzy American, over-educated ears never compute. Consuming less and not wasting resources will help.

 

[Fly-Swatter]

All the legit concerns expressed here regarding the inefficiency of recycling support my earlier thesis: Our willingness to buy disposable stuff because it's convenient needs to change. Use less plastic (fewer disposable bottles of water, for example) would be a big step towards reducing the negative consequences of rampant plastic manufacture, use, and disposal.

Reduce, reuse,(maybe) recycle, in that order.

 

[Baron]

I agree. We need all three points to be appropriately applied.

 

[salvelinusfontinalis]

One thing i noticed and then thinking about this thread:

In my past experience in the construction field with pipefitters working on parking garages and schools, all storm water pipes are PVC.

When our barn collapsed during a wind storm , all the old drainage pipes for the roof going under ground where metal.
The new barn has PVC storm water pipes.

Contributing?

 

[drossi]

Most recyclers are in business because they make money off the municipalities who want to take "green" credit for recycling programs. The commodities themselves are often money losers especially glass, paper, and plastic. Cheaper to make new ones than to recycle used material. Metals are more profitable, though iron can be tricky, aluminum as well.

 

[Oregon_OwlII]

Baron wrote:
Do degrading bottles and bags contribute to the micro-plastics? Or is it primarily manufactured goods?
Remember when you carried a canteen and or thermos bottle that lasted for years and years. All veggies were frozen in boxes and all meets were purchased and wrapped in waxed paper. I wonder if it wasn't better that way?

Agree. Packaging, especially in the food industry, is a major issue. Much of the change has to come from consumer demand. There were no sanitation issues that I remember from 60 years ago when wax paper wrapped meats and fish, and veggies were bought 'au naturel". Alternative biodegradable packaging is within our capabilities if the will to do so is also present.

 

[Baron]

like

Oregon_OwlII wrote:

Baron wrote:
Do degrading bottles and bags contribute to the micro-plastics? Or is it primarily manufactured goods?
Remember when you carried a canteen and or thermos bottle that lasted for years and years. All veggies were frozen in boxes and all meets were purchased and wrapped in waxed paper. I wonder if it wasn't better that way?

Agree. Packaging, especially in the food industry, is a major issue. Much of the change has to come from consumer demand. There were no sanitation issues that I remember from 60 years ago when wax paper wrapped meats and fish, and veggies were bought 'au naturel". Alternative biodegradable packaging is within our capabilities if the will to do so is also present.

 

[SmoothOperator]

HopBack wrote:


Recycling at this point is only done because of modern laws and mandates to help protect the environment. There is no money to be made there except in scrap metal which requires and enormous amount of energy to process back into usable alloys. This process is likely actually worse for the environment then mining the ore to make the metals in the first place.

I call complete B.S. on the making steel from "scratch" as opposed to remelting/recycling used steel as worse for the environment......Just the coke making process in making new steel is an environmental problem.....

 

[HopBack]

I call complete B.S. on the making steel from "scratch" as opposed to remelting/recycling used steel as worse for the environment......Just the coke making process in making new steel is an environmental problem.....

You are correct but its like saying the use of an oil power plant is good compared to a coal power plant. They are both really bad for the environment.

I was relating my experience working for a steel mill where we used and electric arc furnace that ran 24/7 and used 500kw/hr to make a ton of steel(not a lot at all). I remember the utilities bill being something like 4 mil per month. That’s a ton of damage to the environment.

 

[salmonoid]

A couple of articles I stumbled on recently that seem germane to the subject:

Plastic at the bottom of the ocean (but more on land)...

Oil companies spin on recycling (hint, it is NOT economically viable).

I think we all have drubbed into our heads the recycling mantra, enough that I get peeved when I stay at a state park cabin and they only have trash cans in the cabin, I always wonder why they don't have a recycling can as well. But, if we've all been fed a lie, I wonder if recycling plastic even matters and I'm just better off tossing a drink container in the trash than saving them to take home and put out curbside. And maybe the circle of Reduce, Reuse, Recycle simply becomes a line of continuum between Reduce and Reuse.

Buy more beer in growlers instead of bottles and cans (but a growler sure weighs a lot more to carry in a pack and a few more servings too)...
Stop buying 16-32 oz drinks in plastic containers (they're not good for you anyway)
Use a metal reusable water bottle
Not sure what to do about milk - I want to support our local dairy but they sell everything in plastic jugs
Curious - what happens to the frustration packaging that you don't get when you buy something in Amazon frustration-free packaging (i.e. the clamshell plastics)? Do they just package the goods that way directly from the factory or do they repackage stuff and discard the clamshell plastics?

 

[afishinado]

Interesting article about trend for new vs recycled plastic production >

https://www.yahoo.com/news/special-report-plastic-pandemic-covid-111315407.html

 

[pcray1231]

As a metallurgist. Most steel plants don't use coke process anymore, as electric furnaces are much more common. EAF's as well as VIM (for medical, aerospace, jewelry grade stuff), plus often remelted (ESR, VAR) for refining purposes. Raw material iron, nickel, etc is more often than not electrolytic produced for cleanliness purposes.

Yes, its an enormous amount of energy to remelt, but thats true whether putting in virgin materials or scrap.

Most heats are charged with a mix of scrap and raw, virgin material. That mix depends on the chemistry needed and the tolerances, but by in large, the steel industry is on the order of 90% using scrap and it is cheaper than using virgin material. We hold down the amount of raw material per heat as much as possible for cost purposes. Comodity steel producers can be dang near 100% scrap but many specialty steel places are more like 60-70% scrap.

Can't speak for plastics.