PFBC license fee proposal - Senate Bill 1168

[Swattie87]

^ Good call. I've been buying them one at a time. Always felt like there was something else more important for the extra money it would take to pop for a multiyear to go to at the time. If it doesn't go up, I'm gonna get the multiyear next year too.

I wonder if this doesn't make it through this year whether they'll stop selling the multiyears temporarily in anticpation of an increase to come.

 

[nomad_archer]

Swattie I have been in the same boat when it came to the multi year. I have been buying one at a time since there was no real savings buying a multi year license. Now there is so I guess I will pony up the money.

 

[wbranch]

Moon wrote;

I buy a non res and trout stamp every year. Excluding border waters I probably fish pa 10-20 days a year. I don't display my license and I've been checked a lot, big spring, spring, valley by a park ranger, Ridley creek, white clay creek, little Lehigh, at the junction pool on the de twice. They always asked to see my license and most told me if I had displayed it they wouldn't have bothered me. Since 2011, I only fish pa in the winter when I cannot fish in NY. I have fished in pa since 2007. I've probably been checked in NY 3 times in that time period.

Interesting. I fish at least 100 days a year with much of it on NY/PA border waters. In the fifty years I have fished the WB, EB, main stem, Beaverkill, Willowemoc, I have never been checked by a CO or game warden except once on Clarks Creek in Dauphin County on Opening Day and once on the Missouri River in Montana. I do not display my PA license. I keep it in my wallet with my NY, MT, and OH licenses.

I was stopped once on the lower main stem, and fined, by Federal wardens, for not having PFD's in my kayak and for not having a "sound producing device" in case I needed assistance. I thought they were NYS wardens so I paddled over to the PA side of the river. But they crossed the Lordville bridge and came right down to the river and called me and my buddy in to shore. Not only didn't I have any PFD'd or whistles but I had left my wallet back in my cabin so I didn't have a drivers license or a fishing license.

Luckily for me he had a little hand held computer and I gave him my name and address and he was able to verify I was who I was saying I was and that I did have valid licenses. He still fined me $70. $35 each for me and my buddy for not having the PFD and whistle.

 

[wbranch]

I feel lucky to have made the cut for my Senior Lifetime license with permanent trout stamp and Erie steelhead permit. I bought it in 2008. I think there has been a change in the law for senior lifetime licenses. The actual license still needs to be bought only once but I think if you turned 65 after a certain year you now have to buy the trout stamp and Erie permit every year.

 

[moon1284]

I might just look guilty. I've been checked a lot in ny too. Also been checked on an Indian res for tribal license.

Ny offers lifetime licenses, I think I paid in the range of 350 or so 4-5 years ago. Their cost is based on your age. You get a discount if you're a senior or under 16. I was neither when I got mine. In addition, you can buy them as a gift for kids. They send you a thing that looks like a credit card. They also send you a new drivers license that has a fish icon on that bottom that also counts as a fishing license.

 

[krayfish2]

Been checked on Spring 2-3 times, on Clarks, the Tully, in Indiantown Gap, on Susky and one the Main Stem. Also stopped by park police to make sure I wasn't an illegal guide on Main this year. Always had my stuff and never got fined.

 

[Dale49]

Did I miss something when I looked at the Proposed Senate Bill on page 9 outlining proposed fees for license categories. I did not see any information on multi-year licenses and trout stamp fee increases. Is there a proposal to eliminate these categories or didn't I read the bill correctly?

 

[afishinado]

Dale49 wrote:
Did I miss something when I looked at the Proposed Senate Bill on page 9 outlining proposed fees for license categories. I did not see any information on multi-year licenses and trout stamp fee increases. Is there a proposal to eliminate these categories or didn't I read the bill correctly?

Trout stamp and Erie stamp increases are listed near the bottom of the chart on page 9. No multi-year info is given on the chart.

 

[franklin]

I still have not been able to find the 2016 line item budget for the PFBC. Anyone else happen to find it? I'd like to see where the current spending goes.

I couldn't support a blind request for an increase. Once I find the budget and review it I'm going to Email the PFBC (CC my local rep) and ask them for a projected line item budget for the first year they would implement the increase.

I still think asking seniors for a 100% increase is unfair.

 

[wbranch]

Oops, I forget once at the Marietta launch on the Susky I was checked at the ramp for my boat and trailer registration, how many PFD's I had on board, fire extinguisher, and all the other items boaters must have.

 

[salmonoid]

franklin wrote:
I still have not been able to find the 2016 line item budget for the PFBC. Anyone else happen to find it? I'd like to see where the current spending goes.

I couldn't support a blind request for an increase. Once I find the budget and review it I'm going to Email the PFBC (CC my local rep) and ask them for a projected line item budget for the first year they would implement the increase.

I still think asking seniors for a 100% increase is unfair.

How is it unfair? PA life expectancy for a male is 75.83 years and for a female 81.05 years. You are looking at an annual average license cost of 3.33-4.62 currently, jumping to double that. With population aging, more folks are going to fall in that demographic. This of course does not include a trout stamp cost. The PFBC data shows this change in demographics, and they are trying to be proactive about this change.

What do you propose as a "fair" alternative? Have under 65 anglers subsidize senior licenses, like many other government programs do (many of which will be broke within my lifetime, without further funding or "creative" kick the can down the road schemes).

Regarding finances 70% of the PFBC spending goes to personnel. They have about 430 employees. Most are not making an average salary of $83,333 that would come out to, so the bulk of the increase will be absorbed by healthcare costs and the pension millstone. I am doubtful you will see a broad increase in stocked trout.

 

[John96]

I would have no problem paying more for a license if I knew that it would go to good use. That, in my book, is more public access and more habitat work as a start. I doubt this will happen, however. As far as a loss in license sales, my guess would be that the only major loss would be the once or twice a year crowd. Which, in the grand scheme of things is not the biggest loss.

Just some thoughts.

 

[fishbaithohaha]

As proposed, the increase in price of license/stamp will cause Total Revenue (TR) to decline. An example: at $10, 10 people purchase liscenses TR = $100, at $11, 9 people purchase licenses TR = $99, a 10% difference.

Albeit a cursory examination, historical data shows past increases caused a measureable decline in liscences purchased. Which, probably, resulted in a decline in TR, not adjusted for inflation.

For a department dependent revenue to cover operating expenses, this will prove to be problematic. There will be forced steps taken to reduce costs (read RIF, stocking, hatcheries, purchasing access... ). A decline in licenses purchased, will be accompanied by decline in the sale of complimentary goods (rods, reels, waders, clothing..... ) and sales tax revenues from those goods.

 

[dano]

fishbaithohaha wrote:

A decline in licenses purchased, will be accompanied by decline in the sale of complimentary goods (rods, reels, waders, clothing..... ) and sales tax revenues from those goods.

Yes and it was a determining factor in NY's decision to decrease the costs of sporting licenses. The decrease didn't result in a large bump in license sales but it did stop the decline. That proposed license fee decrease was asked for by the governor of NY which helped in getting it implemented quickly.

 

[CRB]

I've been saying for years they need to increase the amount they will pay per stream mile for easements. "The louder the steelhead fisherman and groups are the more the PAFBC will work in directing those funds". Lake Erie boat fisherman are screaming now but the way the stamp legislation was written it can't be directed towards it. Boat fund moneys have traditionally been used but the commission sees the amount of of money sitting in the access fund and want into it.
I've been told this from The Director and by the Commissioners in person.
Take it for what it is worth.

 

[RLeep2]

Not to be difficult, but I'd just as soon the Commission wait a few years to see if the trib fishery returns to some semblance of the "glory years" before they sink any more $ into stream access easements. Its a big lake with complex cause and effect variables and it can be fickle. The return on investment for the angling public may not be there.

In the meantime, if there is stamp specific money in the easement pot that cannot be used for a new launch or something, leave it sit and earn a little interest. It'll still be there when the value of buying the easements becomes more clear one way or the other.

A viewpoint...

 

[bikerfish]

Raise it to 100 bucks for residents, 200 for non!! Too many damn people on the creeks anyways!! LOL!! Oh yeah, and end ALL stocking!!!

 

[wbranch]

Rleep2 wrote;

but I'd just as soon the Commission wait a few years to see if the trib fishery returns to some semblance of the "glory years"

My comment is somewhat off topic but the "glory years" spoiled lots of the guys who steelhead fish often. I can remember (before I started to fish Steelhead Alley) going to the Somerset Show and guys telling me about seeing 100 - 200 steelhead in the pools and some pools had so many fish that you had to pass them up because you couldn't help but snag them as your fly drifted through.

Steelhead Alley is still way better than fishing the SR or most of the other creeks feeding Lake Ontario. Most guys are spoiled rotten because the double digit days are over for most of them and all they can do now is act like cry babies bemoaning "there are no fish".

It is really unrealistic to imagine that one should be able to hook a dozen of more steelhead in a day. In all my years fishing the Salmon River for steelhead I only had one day where I landed over a dozen fish. Actually I landed 22 fish but I was way down in DSR at the Bus Pool before it filled in with gravel. Most of the time I would land 2 or 3 fish and think I did well.

The PA Steelhead Alley streams are still excellent fisheries and I personally hope the runs don't get bigger like the "glory years". Hopefully many of the guys who rope and smoke three fish day after day will stop fishing. If you do your homework and learn what triggers the fish to push up river and spread out in the system and are willing to walk a mile or two during the day you should be able to hook a bunch of fish.

 

[krayfish2]

I'd gladly pay 20% - 30% more for a license if the stopped stocking trout in waters containing healthy wild fish populations. Until then, I will simply do my trout fishing elsewhere.

 

[franklin]

salmonoid wrote:

franklin wrote:
I still have not been able to find the 2016 line item budget for the PFBC. Anyone else happen to find it? I'd like to see where the current spending goes.

I couldn't support a blind request for an increase. Once I find the budget and review it I'm going to Email the PFBC (CC my local rep) and ask them for a projected line item budget for the first year they would implement the increase.

I still think asking seniors for a 100% increase is unfair.

How is it unfair? PA life expectancy for a male is 75.83 years and for a female 81.05 years. You are looking at an annual average license cost of 3.33-4.62 currently, jumping to double that. With population aging, more folks are going to fall in that demographic. This of course does not include a trout stamp cost. The PFBC data shows this change in demographics, and they are trying to be proactive about this change.

What do you propose as a "fair" alternative? Have under 65 anglers subsidize senior licenses, like many other government programs do (many of which will be broke within my lifetime, without further funding or "creative" kick the can down the road schemes).

Regarding finances 70% of the PFBC spending goes to personnel. They have about 430 employees. Most are not making an average salary of $83,333 that would come out to, so the bulk of the increase will be absorbed by healthcare costs and the pension millstone. I am doubtful you will see a broad increase in stocked trout.

They are doubling the senior license compared to much less % increase of other licenses. Don't forget these seniors were funding the program when you were fishing for free as a kid. Do we consider allowing youngsters to fish free as subsidizing them? Many seniors are living on fixed income. With pensions going the way of the dinosaur a lot of seniors may choose not to fish.

As to spending, I pulled that information from a presentation pitching the bill. One section specifically alluded to funding stocking efforts. What I'd like to see is exactly where the money is intended to go. An actual line item budget. It appears they would get a big jump the first year it would go into effect. Where does that "extra" money go? Does it get spent on enlarging programs and the commission gets back into the same situation in four years?

It's interesting that in previous years the commission touted their ability to turn a small profit each year. To be fair they did report that down the road pensions would impact the budget.

With the sunset clause in the proposed bill I think it wouldn't get reinstated after that date.