Penn's Creek Report Tempature Rising

[Silent Ocelot]

Who the hell ever heard of carrying a second, third, or mabye even a fourth rod when they went trout fishing 30 years ago, much less a 10’ euro whatever type of special this or that type of rod, line or fly? (and I’m not knocking doing that just pointing it out as a contributory factor.)

Explain to me how taking multiple rods to the creek is a contributing to trout destruction. I don't think there is any truth to that. Just seems to me yet another jab at people who like to fish a certain way that isn't backed by any factual evidence in the event to criticize those individuals for essentially no reason.

 

[Mike]

Southwest Montana Trout Populations Continue Alarming Decline - Fly Fisherman

The Big Hole, Ruby, Beaverhead, Jefferson, and Clark Fork rivers have severely reduced trout populations. Montana officials have been absent in this crisis.

www.flyfisherman.com

Water temp exacerbating disease and other environmental problems, such as low D.O. Quite the contrast, if I recall correctly, to the speculation here this past winter about the Montana BT decline. Imagine that.

The issue reminds me of the Susquehanna SMB problem and if I had known the names this past winter of the waters involved in Montana as outlined in this article, for starters I would have speculated that the BT decline had its underpinnings in warm water temps plus potential for warm temps to exacerbate other problems. Note: I would have given a pass to the Ruby, however, since I was not knowledgable about that river.

 

[Mike]

Water temp exacerbating disease and other environmental problems, such as low D.O. Quite the contrast to the speculation here this past winter about the Montana BT decline. Imagine that.

The issue reminds me of the Susquehanna SMB problem and if I had known the names this past winter of the waters involved in Montana as outlined in this article for starters I would have speculated that the BT decline had its underpinnings in warm water temps plus potential for warm temps to exacerbate other problems.s

Additionally, I don’t see this decline being related to fishing pressure one bit. This doesn’t happen across a broad spectrum of waters essentially all at once because of fishing pressure, which likely varies from water to water. And fishing pressure is not affecting reproductive success. Gamete failure is brought on by warm temps.

Broad spectrum declines across many waters and populations at the same time are environmental. Even diseases and parasites take time to spread, but when they are already present in all of the river/stream systems, a change in environmental conditions across the board can manifest in a synchronous response.

 

[Fish Sticks]

Water temp exacerbating disease and other environmental problems, such as low D.O. Quite the contrast to the speculation here this past winter about the Montana BT decline. Imagine that.

The issue reminds me of the Susquehanna SMB problem and if I had known the names this past winter of the waters involved in Montana as outlined in this article for starters I would have speculated that the BT decline had its underpinnings in warm water temps plus potential for warm temps to exacerbate other problems.

Brown trout are still mentioned in media out there to be declining more than other species. Might be their downstream big water niche is turning into transitional water? I don’t believe higher elevation streams have warmed as much based on what I have heard about guides altering their trips

 

[Nocktavius]

Explain to me how taking multiple rods to the creek is a contributing to trout destruction. I don't think there is any truth to that. Just seems to me yet another jab at people who like to fish a certain way that isn't backed by any factual evidence in the event to criticize those individuals for essentially no reason.

I don’t think his point is the multiple rod thing so much as it is the extreme tactical big swinging D**k BS that’s taking over a sport that was once based in relaxation, enjoying the outdoors, and catching a few fish. It’s really become more apparent since Covid and it’s starting to sour me on the sport.

You got Macho Joe Simms with his 70,000$ fully loaded Toyota coming from out of state or from 4 hours away to pound streams he found out about on the latest episode of PA Spotburner Outdoors, or maybe your favorite river is inundated with another obscure Guide service (the barrier to entry for becoming a FF guide at this point has to basically be can I catch a fish ). I open social media and I’m bombarded with guys catching fish everyday, most of them not being particularly careful about saying where they caught them, meanwhile you can’t find CDC, wood duck anywhere, can’t even find the right color F****king thread you need anymore, because tacticalnympomaniac flyfisher dot com published it’s latest tying video of yet another jig nymph that suddenly every YouTuber needs to pound the water with….

Then you work all week, go to get out there and the whole damn river is full anyway.

This low water might be a blessing in disguise. The trout will survive as they have for more than a century, and maybe we’ll all catch a bit of needed break as well.

 

[mt_flyfisher]

Explain to me how taking multiple rods to the creek is a contributing to trout destruction. I don't think there is any truth to that. Just seems to me yet another jab at people who like to fish a certain way that isn't backed by any factual evidence in the event to criticize those individuals for essentially no reason.

Read my prior paragraph to that one.

Carrying multiple rods, each one of which is intended for a specific purpose or angling technique, is just one part of being a more efficient fisherman, the same as having better gear, better techniques, etc.

When you put all of that together with more fishermen who are fishing the same water for the same fish, more fish will be caught. And the more fish that are caught, released, and then caught again, I think you know what the ultimate result will be.

That’s not intended as a jab to any one of us; that’s the reality of all of us, collectively.

 

[Mike]

Brown trout are still mentioned in media out there to be declining more than other species. Might be their downstream big water niche is turning into transitional water? I don’t believe higher elevation streams have warmed as much based on what I have heard about guides altering their trips

Your point is well-taken. In the same vein, I had thought earlier about making a wise-guy comment that they’ll soon be fishing for fallfish and SMB.

 

[Mike]

I don’t think his point is the multiple rod thing so much as it is the extreme tactical big swinging D**k BS that’s taking over a sport that was once based in relaxation, enjoying the outdoors, and catching a few fish. It’s really become more apparent since Covid and it’s starting to sour me on the sport.

You got Macho Joe Simms with his 70,000$ fully loaded Toyota coming from out of state or from 4 hours away to pound streams he found out about on the latest episode of PA Spotburner Outdoors, or maybe your favorite river is inundated with another obscure Guide service (the barrier to entry for becoming a FF guide at this point has to basically be can I catch a fish ). I open social media and I’m bombarded with guys catching fish everyday, most of them not being particularly careful about saying where they caught them, meanwhile you can’t find CDC, wood duck anywhere, can’t even find the right color F****king thread you need anymore, because tacticalnympomaniac flyfisher dot com published it’s latest tying video of yet another jig nymph that suddenly every YouTuber needs to pound the water with….

Then you work all week, go to get out there and the whole damn river is full anyway.

This low water might be a blessing in disguise. The trout will survive as they have for more than a century, and maybe we’ll all catch a bit of needed break as well.

Nock,
I don’t know where you are fishing or what time of the day, but finding solitude or relative solitude in Pa when trout or SMB fishing, even in Fisheries Management Area 6, is pretty easy. Years ago in my presentations to TU chapters I used to make the point about how many good wild trout streams people were driving over or along from SE Pa or SC Pa just to join the gang on Penns Ck.

 

[Fish Sticks]

I

Your point is well-taken. In the same vein, I had thought earlier about making a wise-guy comment that they’ll soon be fishing for fallfish and SMB.

i could see that happening to some extent in many PA streams if drought becomes standard and temps shoot up. Could be seasonally occupied by trout only like so many already are we already have that work that way.

Interesting is the change in competition at different temps. Is there a thermal point where fallfish outcompete brown trout?

 

[bdhoover77]

You got Macho Joe Simms with his 70,000$ fully loaded Toyota coming from out of state or from 4 hours away to pound streams he found out about on the latest episode of PA Spotburner Outdoors, or maybe your favorite river is inundated with another obscure Guide service (the barrier to entry for becoming a FF guide at this point has to basically be can I catch a fish ). I open social media and I’m bombarded with guys catching fish everyday, most of them not being particularly careful about saying where they caught them, meanwhile you can’t find CDC, wood duck anywhere, can’t even find the right color F****king thread you need anymore, because tacticalnympomaniac flyfisher dot com published it’s latest tying video of yet another jig nymph that suddenly every YouTuber needs to pound the water with….

Then you work all week, go to get out there and the whole damn river is full anyway.

I understand your frustration (the pandemic created the same issue with golf courses being too damn crowded). But these are public waters and we all have as much right to fish these streams as locals and others who have fished the streams for XX number of years.

On the other hand, I see all too often poor etiquette, both in golf and fishing, so I understand the desire for solitude and less crowding. For example, nothing pisses me off more than seeing golfers not fix pitchmarks or replace divots. By the same token, the amount of trash we see along stream banks is just maddening.

 

[Nocktavius]

Nock,
I don’t know where you are fishing or what time of the day, but finding solitude or relative solitude in Pa when trout or SMB fishing, even in Fisheries Management Area 6, is pretty easy. Years ago in my presentations to TU chapters I used to make the point about how many good wild trout streams people were driving over or along from SE Pa or SC Pa just to join the gang on Penns Ck.

Oh I’ve been exploring those rivers plenty over the last dozen years. The scenery can be lacking compared to central but there are good fish to be had. As a Penn Stater, there’s a special connection I feel to those central PA waterways that continues to draw me out there. It’s a holistic experience- camping, cooking out, listening to the whippoorwhils and barred owls, getting up at first light onto a rushing river and catching large wild trout that feed on the diverse insect life that can only be found in clean cold water.

You’re not finding that experience in south east PA, I promise you. I’ve grown up here, I’ve searched, it’s simply not possible. Much like fishing in Montana, there’s a reason people go up there.

In the past probably 2 seasons more than ever, the magic of heading over the misty mountains into the valleys of central PA is marred upon arrival in the parking areas by the social media fueled circus that ruins this sport like so many others. And now the hottest YouTube trend is guys going out fishing “marginal” and “obscure” waters anyway so it’s only a matter of time before the current generation of unoriginal followers that consumes that garbage ruins those as well.

 

[Nocktavius]

I understand your frustration (the pandemic created the same issue with golf courses being too damn crowded). But these are public waters and we all have as much right to fish these streams as locals and others who have fished the streams for XX number of years.

On the other hand, I see all too often poor etiquette, both in golf and fishing, so I understand the desire for solitude and less crowding. For example, nothing pisses me off more than seeing golfers not fix pitchmarks or replace divots. By the same token, the amount of trash we see along stream banks is just maddening.

everyone is entitled to it, sure- but we’re making it way too easy for the exact type of people who leave their trash everywhere to find.

 

[JackM]

"Fishing on Penns has been fantastic. Lots of dry fly opportunities and nymphing has been great.

Probably all true.

 

[NRD]

Green Drakes by the thousands on Tuesday

Tuesday evening, I fished from 5 till 8 directly below the Cherry Run parking lot, and saw very few Drakes. Did I leave too soon? The fishing was slowing down, and I'd heard they peaked on Sunday, so I left.

 

[discomidge]

I can’t speak with first hand knowledge to the decline in trout populations on rivers like the Big Hole, Ruby, Jefferson, etc. that are mentioned in this article but I can tell you from the years that I spent on the Yellowstone, that there was a continual decline there in trout populations and sizes during the period I was there (2001-2019).

I’m sure there are multiple reasons that a person can point their fingers at as the causes for the decline, climate change, agriculture, etc.,etc. But one thing as much as any other sticks out in my mind: I have met the enemy, and it is me (or us, all of us).

It’s this damn forum, it’s the internet, its social media, it’s better fishing gear, better angling techniques, better cameras and photography, etc. It’s too many of us, being better fishermen, fishing the same places for the same fish.

Who the hell ever heard of carrying a second, third, or mabye even a fourth rod when they went trout fishing 30 years ago, much less a 10’ euro whatever type of special this or that type of rod, line or fly? (and I’m not knocking doing that just pointing it out as a contributory factor.)

At one time, I could walk 100 yards up the river from where we stayed on the Yellowstone, and catch 30 trout in the evening on a dry fly without moving 10 feet. In subsequent years, I could sit on the bank in front of our place and count 100 drift boats pass by in a couple hours, of which 3/4 were “guides“ with their clients, and they fished the same lies, over, and over, and over, and over, again and again and again. You catch a fish, then snag a fish, then fight the fish, often over playing the fish, then take the fish out of the water to take a picture, maybe two or three pictures, and how about a video then to post on the internet?

Oh sure, we love our rivers, but we’re loving them to death. And the same exact thing is happening here in PA, and, I’m afraid, on Penns Creek. (I don’t know him, but thank gawd for people like Bruce at a Penns Creek Angler.). And it’s happening on the Little J, the upper Delaware, and elsewhere.

Will it stop? Should it stop? I dunno.

Spot on, I think. I'm definitely part of the problem, just like everyone else - I fish Penns all the time because it's the closest large, fishy stream to me. And if I'm out all day, I bring a second euro rod, because it works in the afternoon, and it freaking slays and maybe I catch more fish than I should. I like to think that I'm better at landing and handling fish than average, but no doubt getting caught monumentally sucks for the fish, and maybe the future. But I still go out there and fish.

Bruce is a straight-shooter in my experience and HUGE props to him for saying that Penns is out of bounds for ethical anglers. I think his reports have always been honest. He'll even say if fishing isn't great at peak times, like early May this year. TCO's reports are marketing propoganda and divorced from reality. They're just some boilerplate that they occasionally update, but they don't reflect actual observations. Owning a thermometer proves that. TCO posts "reports" to drive business. Which I get, but goddamnit, don't eff with my stream. Feathered Hook is straight-up too. I call them in the fall to ask about temps. Honest dudes, and I have spent a lot of money there. Which gets to my point I guess - I love fly shops and buy all my rods from local ones. But only those shops that respect the local streams.

 

[sixfootfenwick]

Oh I’ve been exploring those rivers plenty over the last dozen years. The scenery can be lacking compared to central but there are good fish to be had. As a Penn Stater, there’s a special connection I feel to those central PA waterways that continues to draw me out there. It’s a holistic experience- camping, cooking out, listening to the whippoorwhils and barred owls, getting up at first light onto a rushing river and catching large wild trout that feed on the diverse insect life that can only be found in clean cold water.

You’re not finding that experience in south east PA, I promise you. I’ve grown up here, I’ve searched, it’s simply not possible. Much like fishing in Montana, there’s a reason people go up there.

In the past probably 2 seasons more than ever, the magic of heading over the misty mountains into the valleys of central PA is marred upon arrival in the parking areas by the social media fueled circus that ruins this sport like so many others. And now the hottest YouTube trend is guys going out fishing “marginal” and “obscure” waters anyway so it’s only a matter of time before the current generation of unoriginal followers that consumes that garbage ruins those as well.

That sounds great!
I have to get out there and fish it!

 

[Nocktavius]

That sounds great!
I have to get out there and fish it!

Yes! It’s a large region that’s there for everyone to enjoy. If you’ve never fished that area you’re truly missing out on the best aspects of this sport.

I’m frustrated that so many people feel the need to bring their 1000 internet follower “friends” with them and then leave an empty 30 rack of Busch light behind when they leave.

 

[sixfootfenwick]

Best aspects of the sport!?
Well golly gee willikers, I am missing out and so are my friends and Instagram followers!

Look, don't take offense, or do, it doesn't matter.

The irony in these threads is everyone continually talks up the area online, while complaining it is over run by those talking it up online.

It has been going on in this website alone for an entire month and I've seen trout with more self awareness than people in these threads complaining.

Even now, you do not know me or who will read any of what you wrote. I could be new to the sport, have thousands of followers and was looking for a place to film a series.

As it is I've fished Penns 100s of times in my life but prefer fishing new waters and all around several states.
Never posted, nor discussed anywhere online.

Just saying...

Penns is going to be hot, fish somewhere else.

 

[Swattie87]

Best aspects of the sport!?
Well golly gee willikers, I am missing out and so are my friends and Instagram followers!

Look, don't take offense, or do, it doesn't matter.

The irony in these threads is everyone continually talks up the area online, while complaining it is over run by those talking it up online.

It has been going on in this website alone for an entire month and I've seen trout with more self awareness than people in these threads complaining.

Even now, you do not know me or who will read any of what you wrote. I could be new to the sport, have thousands of followers and was looking for a place to film a series.

As it is I've fished Penns 100s of times in my life but prefer fishing new waters and all around several states.
Never posted, nor discussed anywhere online.

Just saying...

Penns is going to be hot, fish somewhere else.

Penns, so hot right now.

 

[afishinado]

From Bruce at Penns Creek Angler >

"Penn's Creek Angler Fly Shop Weikert Pa. Yes, I know what’s happening on Penn’s. We are having some of the best hatches of the year. It’s easy pickings when the trout are in their final feeding mode before the water gets too hot. I see this happen every year. With cool weather coming be smart about where and when you fish, use a thermometer and your best judgment. I fished last night in a spot I thought would be perfect as far as temperature. Several trout were hooked and fought hard during a wonderful hatch and spinner fall. However, one trout took too long to recover and I felt uneasy (it was a stocked trout that had migrated upstream). The damage of this hot water has already been done to any trout that was temperature sensitive. Not even the cool temps that are coming will bring those trout back to life. Without more rain I’m afraid we will see another dry summer. This is the third low water year in a row. Yes, I’m fishing but now I need to drive further to cold water. Thursday Penn’s 62-71, 163cfs, Clear water at Weikert. I’ll be in the shop this weekend 9-3pm if you need anything. After all there are other waters besides Penn’s. All the Best!"


From Jonas at the Feathered Hook >

"6/1/23…..IT IS HOT OUT!​

June 1, 2023
The Green Drake is winding down for another year and summer has set in a few weeks early.
Please watch the water temps for the next couple of days until things return to normal which should happen on Sunday."