Penn's Creek Report Tempature Rising

[mtelesha]

The river is low and the tempature were 66 at Cherry Run and 64 bellow Elk in Colburn.

Caught equal number of trout to smallies. Green Drakes just finished at Cherry Run. Green Drakes by the thousands on Tuesday and zero on Wednesday. Head up river they were still popping. It was the a really long Drake Hatch. Everything is hatching from tan caddis, stoneflies, Drakes, March Browns, and a ton of light Cahill.

 

[McSneek]

Going to get warmer over the next couple of days. Should improve next week but still no rain…

 

[Schaefer406]

The river is low and the tempature were 66 at Cherry Run and 64 bellow Elk in Colburn.

Caught equal number of trout to smallies. Green Drakes just finished at Cherry Run. Green Drakes by the thousands on Tuesday and zero on Wednesday. Head up river they were still popping. It was the a really long Drake Hatch. Everything is hatching from tan caddis, stoneflies, Drakes, March Browns, and a ton of light Cahill.

I saw multiple reports from guys on the Little J yesterday of water temps hovering at 69/70 degrees in lower sections and 67 in the upper section.

 

[bdhoover77]

I saw multiple reports from guys on the Little J yesterday of water temps hovering at 69/70 degrees in lower sections and 67 in the upper section.

Great example of the reliability of TCO’s stream reports — Their report from 5/31 simply says “low 60s” for LJ stream temps (with no indication of where that might or might not be the case).

Regardless, I suspect my trout fishing in PA is done until fall. I had hoped to do a long weekend in central PA in June, but lack of rainfall and rising water temps mean I’m not going to bother. I guess my trout fishing will be limited to occasional times on the tailwaters closer to home.

 

[nymphingmaniac]

I can believe temperatures near that on the J based on temps of another stream in the area I took yesterday on a section of a stream with temperature trends very similar to the J. That stream even had more water in it. High 80s today and 90 tomorrow in the area. Just in time for weekend rush only showers early next week, but moderating temps

 

[Schaefer406]

Great example of the reliability of TCO’s stream reports — Their report from 5/31 simply says “low 60s” for LJ stream temps (with no indication of where that might or might not be the case).

Regardless, I suspect my trout fishing in PA is done until fall. I had hoped to do a long weekend in central PA in June, but lack of rainfall and rising water temps mean I’m not going to bother. I guess my trout fishing will be limited to occasional times on the tailwaters closer to home.

I obviously can't confirm if their readings are accurate, but it is definitely possible. Yeah those TCO reports are absolutely useless. My trout fishing definitely is not done yet, I will just be fishing mornings and switching to cooler waters in the afternoon, but I am starting to get the smallmouth itch...

 

[Nocktavius]

Great example of the reliability of TCO’s stream reports — Their report from 5/31 simply says “low 60s” for LJ stream temps (with no indication of where that might or might not be the case).

Regardless, I suspect my trout fishing in PA is done until fall. I had hoped to do a long weekend in central PA in June, but lack of rainfall and rising water temps mean I’m not going to bother. I guess my trout fishing will be limited to occasional times on the tailwaters closer to home.

TCO loses money when trout season is over since people aren’t flocking to their local waters.

Really I don’t understand why the gauges on our central PA waters don’t have thermometers on them like the catskill rivers and so many out and take fisheries across the state (seriously… there’s a temperature gauge for the mushmouths in French creek in phoenixville). Seems like something those enhanced PA fishing license costs could cover.

 

[TimMurphy]

TCO loses money when trout season is over since people aren’t flocking to their local waters.

Really I don’t understand why the gauges on our central PA waters don’t have thermometers on them like the catskill rivers and so many out and take fisheries across the state (seriously… there’s a temperature gauge for the mushmouths in French creek in phoenixville). Seems like something those enhanced PA fishing license costs could cover.

Dear Nocktavius,

The stream gauges are maintained by the feds, the US Geological Service to be exact. Ten years ago, there were probably 20 to 25% more gauges, but many have taken out of service. Manada Creek used to have a flow and temperature gauge when I moved to Harrisburg.

I'm grateful that we have the on-line system we have. Thirty years ago you had to call the Susquehanna River Basin Commission and listen to a pre-recorded message that listed all the gauges. Sometimes you had to stay on the line for 5 minutes until they got to the gauge you wanted to fish!

Regards,

Tim Murphy

 

[afishinado]

This is yesterday's message from Bruce at the Penns Creek Angler fly shop >

"Wednesday May 31st. Penn's Creek Angler Fly Shop Weikert Pa. Thank you to everyone that supported the shop this year, we had an incredible season. We haven't had rain in a long time and there is nothing in the forecast. The creek got very warm Wednesday night. It was 69 Degrees in Weikert. The creek will get considerably warmer today. It's very near the end of trout fishing on Penn’s Creek and the shop will close until Fall. The Catch and Release was 66 Degrees last night, that’s warm for this time of year. I know there is a cool down in the forecast but without any rain the water temperature will rise each day. Everyone should own a thermometer it dictates when you should stop fishing. Penn’s Creek trout are special. Why risk hurting our beautiful trout. This Sunday will be the last day the shop will be open until late September. If things change, I’ll let you know. Again, Thanks to everyone for a Great Season!"

 

[bdhoover77]

This is yesterday's message from Bruce at the Penns Creek Angler fly shop >

"Wednesday May 31st. Penn's Creek Angler Fly Shop Weikert Pa. Thank you to everyone that supported the shop this year, we had an incredible season. We haven't had rain in a long time and there is nothing in the forecast. The creek got very warm Wednesday night. It was 69 Degrees in Weikert. The creek will get considerably warmer today. It's very near the end of trout fishing on Penn’s Creek and the shop will close until Fall. The Catch and Release was 66 Degrees last night, that’s warm for this time of year. I know there is a cool down in the forecast but without any rain the water temperature will rise each day. Everyone should own a thermometer it dictates when you should stop fishing. Penn’s Creek trout are special. Why risk hurting our beautiful trout. This Sunday will be the last day the shop will be open until late September. If things change, I’ll let you know. Again, Thanks to everyone for a Great Season!"

This is the type of statement you read from someone who cares more about the resource than making money. Kudos to Penns Creek Angler.

Not to pile on TCO too much, but their updated stream report for 6/1/23 shows water temp of “high 50s/low 60s” and a fishing overview of “Fishing on Penns has been fantastic. Lots of dry fly opportunities and nymphing has been great.” Contrast that with Penns Creek Angler’s statement.

 

[Nympho]

This is the type of statement you read from someone who cares more about the resource than making money. Kudos to Penns Creek Angler.

Not to pile on TCO too much, but their updated stream report for 6/1/23 shows water temp of “high 50s/low 60s” and a fishing overview of “Fishing on Penns has been fantastic. Lots of dry fly opportunities and nymphing has been great.” Contrast that with Penns Creek Angler’s statement.

TCO is still trying to make a few bucks by getting people out fishing while Bruce cares about the resource so he gives an honest report.

 

[Schaefer406]

TCO loses money when trout season is over since people aren’t flocking to their local waters.

Really I don’t understand why the gauges on our central PA waters don’t have thermometers on them like the catskill rivers and so many out and take fisheries across the state (seriously… there’s a temperature gauge for the mushmouths in French creek in phoenixville). Seems like something those enhanced PA fishing license costs could cover.

From replies below this, huge shout out to Bruce at Penns Creek Angler - We need more shops and guys like him representing anglers and being a steward of the resources. @Nocktavius - I think the reason they don't have the temperature gauges with all of the level gauges is strictly due to cost and data management. There needs to be a way to store the data, manage it, and install/conduct maintenance on the monitors, and I am sure USGS doesn't have the $ to add these on (but I could be wrong). It would be great to see them investigate this for highly pressured waters to give potential anglers more information to see if they can fish it or not based on temps.

Another point to bring up here - Are shops such as TCO still conducting guide services on these waters when it reaches these critical high temperature marks? It would be unethical IMO for them to do so unless they are early morning and checking temps as they fish. I have no problem with late spring and summer trout fishing up to ~68/69 degree water, but you need to know when to stop. I know most guide services taper at the end of May, but I'm sure there are shops going well into summer for trout.

 

[Nocktavius]

From replies below this, huge shout out to Bruce at Penns Creek Angler - We need more shops and guys like him representing anglers and being a steward of the resources. @Nocktavius - I think the reason they don't have the temperature gauges with all of the level gauges is strictly due to cost and data management. There needs to be a way to store the data, manage it, and install/conduct maintenance on the monitors, and I am sure USGS doesn't have the $ to add these on (but I could be wrong). It would be great to see them investigate this for highly pressured waters to give potential anglers more information to see if they can fish it or not based on temps.

Another point to bring up here - Are shops such as TCO still conducting guide services on these waters when it reaches these critical high temperature marks? It would be unethical IMO for them to do so unless they are early morning and checking temps as they fish. I have no problem with late spring and summer trout fishing up to ~68/69 degree water, but you need to know when to stop. I know most guide services taper at the end of May, but I'm sure there are shops going well into summer for trout.

I think they could easily switch out more detailed gauges on streams that support P&T populations of trouts for those in central PA that basically get hammered on the daily. I just have to chuckle every time I look at the French creek usgs gauge in phoenixville… yep trout are still dead.

If not, we’ve sent 85 billion dollars to Ukraine since 2021, I don’t think a terabyte or two of data storage is gonna break the bank.

If the state is actually concerned with management of trout habitat, they should also be able to install monitoring stations throughout a lot of these rivers themselves. It would provide valuable data and also allow for a more standardized set of fish/don’t fish criteria to be distributed by local fly shops. It boggles my mind that every December I’m supposed to spend nearly 40 dollars on a piece of paper that “permits” me the privilege of catching and releasing stream bred fish that survive not due to but rather mostly in spite of said agencies’ activities in these waters.

As far as TCBlow goes, they’re much more interested in selling me the latest Grateful Dead engraved 2000$ fly reel than worrying about protecting their rivers. Big corporations usually are.

 

[nymphingmaniac]

From replies below this, huge shout out to Bruce at Penns Creek Angler - We need more shops and guys like him representing anglers and being a steward of the resources. @Nocktavius - I think the reason they don't have the temperature gauges with all of the level gauges is strictly due to cost and data management. There needs to be a way to store the data, manage it, and install/conduct maintenance on the monitors, and I am sure USGS doesn't have the $ to add these on (but I could be wrong). It would be great to see them investigate this for highly pressured waters to give potential anglers more information to see if they can fish it or not based on temps.

Another point to bring up here - Are shops such as TCO still conducting guide services on these waters when it reaches these critical high temperature marks? It would be unethical IMO for them to do so unless they are early morning and checking temps as they fish. I have no problem with late spring and summer trout fishing up to ~68/69 degree water, but you need to know when to stop. I know most guide services taper at the end of May, but I'm sure there are shops going well into summer for trout.

yes, the cost of data management is the major cost. Maintenance and calibration, not so much, but it adds to it. 10 years or so ago the LJRA looked into adding temperature and turbidity monitors to the LJ station. LJRA considered purchasing the equipment. However, the real time monitoring, data collection and verification side of things was incredibly high. The temp gauge at houserville (spring creek) was discontinued when the unit broke, and was not restored as cost cutting measures. Most people underestimate the costs of these things- I did! When I inquired with people "in the know", I was surprised to find the costs USGS were quoting were a little bit high, but not out of the question. It's not a simple solid state drive we are talking about.

Remember, the USGS mission is not to provide information to anglers. Its flood control and other water management issues.

 

[Fish Sticks]

What is the point where if you want to fish for smallies your not on trout. Below weikert?

 

[mt_flyfisher]

Every year, Montana Fish Wildlife and Parks consider whether or not to implement something called ”hoot owl” fishing restrictions which can close individual rivers to trout fishing from noon until midnight whenever the daytime water temperatures reach 70° for 3 consecutive days. This isn’t a hard and fast rule, but it also includes some judgement related to other factors including low water flows and fishing pressure, and the closures happen fairly often in the middle of the summer there on rivers like the Yellowstone and Madison.

While there may be differences in PA vs MT (for example, MT rivers probably cool more at night than do PA rivers, and stay cooler throughout the morning), I think PA should implement a mandatory fishing closure on wild trout streams like Penns Creek comparable to what MT does.

 

[Fish Sticks]

Every year, Montana Fish Wildlife and Parks consider whether or not to implement something called ”hoot owl” fishing restrictions which can close individual rivers to trout fishing from noon until midnight whenever the daytime water temperatures reach 70° for 3 consecutive days. This isn’t a hard and fast rule, but it also includes some judgement related to other factors including low water flows and fishing pressure, and the closures happen fairly often in the middle of the summer there on rivers like the Yellowstone and Madison.

While there may be differences in PA vs MT (for example, MT rivers probably cool more at night than do PA rivers, and stay cooler throughout the morning), I think PA should implement a mandatory fishing closure on wild trout streams like Penns Creek comparable to what MT does.

Southwest Montana Trout Populations Continue Alarming Decline - Fly Fisherman

The Big Hole, Ruby, Beaverhead, Jefferson, and Clark Fork rivers have severely reduced trout populations. Montana officials have been absent in this crisis.

www.flyfisherman.com

 

[Silent Ocelot]

If not, we’ve sent 85 billion dollars to Ukraine since 2021, I don’t think a terabyte or two of data storage is gonna break the bank.

As far as TCBlow goes, they’re much more interested in selling me the latest Grateful Dead engraved 2000$ fly reel than worrying about protecting their rivers. Big corporations usually are.

War has been always been man's main occupation. Also, do you know where I can scoop one of those Grateful Dead reels? My Method 890 needs a bit a bling.

 

[Nocktavius]

War has been always been man's main occupation. Also, do you know where I can scoop one of those Grateful Dead reels? My Method 890 needs a bit a bling.

If it’s anything like the rest of their store, it’s probably out of stock.

 

[mt_flyfisher]

Southwest Montana Trout Populations Continue Alarming Decline - Fly Fisherman

The Big Hole, Ruby, Beaverhead, Jefferson, and Clark Fork rivers have severely reduced trout populations. Montana officials have been absent in this crisis.

www.flyfisherman.com

I can’t speak with first hand knowledge to the decline in trout populations on rivers like the Big Hole, Ruby, Jefferson, etc. that are mentioned in this article but I can tell you from the years that I spent on the Yellowstone, that there was a continual decline there in trout populations and sizes during the period I was there (2001-2019).

I’m sure there are multiple reasons that a person can point their fingers at as the causes for the decline, climate change, agriculture, etc.,etc. But one thing as much as any other sticks out in my mind: I have met the enemy, and it is me (or us, all of us).

It’s this damn forum, it’s the internet, its social media, it’s better fishing gear, better angling techniques, better cameras and photography, etc. It’s too many of us, being better fishermen, fishing the same places for the same fish.

Who the hell ever heard of carrying a second, third, or mabye even a fourth rod when they went trout fishing 30 years ago, much less a 10’ euro whatever type of special this or that type of rod, line or fly? (and I’m not knocking doing that just pointing it out as a contributory factor.)

At one time, I could walk 100 yards up the river from where we stayed on the Yellowstone, and catch 30 trout in the evening on a dry fly without moving 10 feet. In subsequent years, I could sit on the bank in front of our place and count 100 drift boats pass by in a couple hours, of which 3/4 were “guides“ with their clients, and they fished the same lies, over, and over, and over, and over, again and again and again. You catch a fish, then snag a fish, then fight the fish, often over playing the fish, then take the fish out of the water to take a picture, maybe two or three pictures, and how about a video then to post on the internet?

Oh sure, we love our rivers, but we’re loving them to death. And the same exact thing is happening here in PA, and, I’m afraid, on Penns Creek. (I don’t know him, but thank gawd for people like Bruce at a Penns Creek Angler.). And it’s happening on the Little J, the upper Delaware, and elsewhere.

Will it stop? Should it stop? I dunno.