Pa Steelhead, catch the value?

[nomad_archer]

Just out of curiosity what is the nature of these easements. Are they to allow access to the stream from the road? Or are these easements only to allow fishing access stream side but not all of the property?

Bear with me as I have not fished steelhead in erie.

 

[RLeep2]

>>Just out of curiosity what is the nature of these easements. Are they to allow access to the stream from the road? Or are these easements only to allow fishing access stream side but not all of the property?>>

I haven’t been paying all that much attention to any of it, but so far as I know, the easements are of the standard “stream corridor” variety used by most states. The easements have clearly defined entry points as well as length and width boundaries that allow access to a given length of the stream and a narrow corridor along one or both banks to allow angler movement. They are usually posted with appropriate signage showing these boundaries. In no case (that I am aware of…) do the easements grant access to the entirety of a given landowner’s property. At the same time, a pretty fair percentage of the easement are on land owned by municipalities, townships and a couple of non-profits and access restrictions are somewhat less stringent.

 

[Chaz]

I have no interest in fishing the Erie Tribs, it's to far from SE PA.

 

[DaveS]

If crowding is an issue, and by most accounts it is, should the cost of the Erie stamp be increased? I'm not an economics guy, but isn't this supply/ demand in it's basic form?

I personally seldom fish the tribs. Mostly because I don't care for the circus of anglers, some of whom do not care how they string up their three fish.

I did for a long time have access to a private stretch of water. My God, THAT was about as much fun as you could have wearing waders!

 

[pcray1231]

nomad,

RLee is mostly correct.

The easements vary by individual landowner, and are largely up to the landowner. For many/most, it is just the stream corridor, and does not affect the remainder of the property.

There are some that include all of the property.

There are others that include the stream corridor PLUS an access corridor from a road or parking lot.

It has to be an agreement between the PFBC and the landowner. i.e. what the PFBC wants to pay for, and what the landowner is willing to agree to. So the situation varies quite a bit.

If crowding is an issue, and by most accounts it is, should the cost of the Erie stamp be increased? I'm not an economics guy, but isn't this supply/ demand in it's basic form?

You could go that route. It'd be perfectly viable though a rather extreme variation from the intended purpose of the Erie stamp. Of course, the "nursery waters" solution is likewise viable but a rather extreme variation from the intended purpose of "nursery waters".

The purpose of the Erie stamp has never been to use the supply/demand curve to control the number of Erie anglers. It's always been for the costs unique to the fishery. At one point to pay commercial fishermen to upgrade equipment to prevent them from catching sport fish meant to come back to the tribs. Also the stocking of smolts, the purchase and upgrade of property near the mouths (Elk Creek and Walnut as examples). And now to pay landowners for access under this easement program.

Basically, all of these things are unique to Erie. If you just used license fees, then you get complaints from folks like Chaz who don't go to Erie. And those complaints would be valid. Hence the Erie stamp. IF you fish Erie or it's tribs, then you pay for this. If not, then you don't have to.

 

[nomad_archer]

Thanks pcray for the info. This is an interesting discussion. I am still all for the landowners right to sell access however they see fit but quite the interesting dynamic.

 

[FarmerDave]

This comment is just in regards tot he suggestion of raising the cost of a Lake Erie Stamp. Remember, this isn't just a steelhead stamp. It's a lake Erie Stamp which includes the tributaries.

Anyone fishing for perch, bass, panfish, carp, gobey, or anything else in lake Erie are also required to buy this stamp. Even if you only go to Presque Isle for bowfin, you need a lake Erie stamp.

I personally couldn't care less if they jacked up the cost of fishing for "steelhead" to purchase stream access, but I can't see raising the fee for everyone fishing Lake Erie for this purpose.

I already know the argument about people catching steelhead from boats in the lake. It's a valid argument. But to penalize those that fish for other things might be a mistake IMHO.

I think that maybe it should be separate.

 

[nomad_archer]

Or instead of all of this stamp for this and that business, just a broad base license increase and dump the trout stamp, and Erie stamp. It would be nice to buy a license and be able to just go fishing instead of needed a stamp for this, and a stamp for that, and a stamp for this other thing.

I don't understand the need for a stamp for everything. If I want to fish NY or OH I just need to buy a license. No need for a stamp to fish lake erie or lake ontario. No need for a trout stamp or salmon stamp.

In some sense I under stand the trout stamp supports the stocking efforts of the trout program but couldn't that be rolled up in a general license increase? I would rather see a simplification of licensing regulations that adding another "stamp" to the mix.

 

[afishinado]

FarmerDave wrote:
This comment is just in regards tot he suggestion of raising the cost of a Lake Erie Stamp. Remember, this isn't just a steelhead stamp. It's a lake Erie Stamp which includes the tributaries.

Anyone fishing for perch, bass, panfish, carp, gobey, or anything else in lake Erie are also required to buy this stamp. Even if you only go to Presque Isle for bowfin, you need a lake Erie stamp.

I personally couldn't care less if they jacked up the cost of fishing for "steelhead" to purchase stream access, but I can't see raising the fee for everyone fishing Lake Erie for this purpose.

I already know the argument about people catching steelhead from boats in the lake. It's a valid argument. But to penalize those that fish for other things might be a mistake IMHO.

I think that maybe it should be separate.

The stamp funds and has funded Lake Erie and Presque Isle projects such as boat launch improvements and fishing piers that benefit all anglers (not just SH anglers).

Check out summary from the PFBC of how the fund has been spent here.

 

[FarmerDave]

Afish, I did not know that. Thanks for the info.

Nomad_Archer,I hear you and that would be a lot easier and it was the way it once was.

PA's a la carte system was probably just a way of collecting more money from people who were bad at math and people like myself who don't care? ;-)

As a side note, the stamp rules are a little bit strange. OK the trout stamp rules are a lot strange. Erie stamp is a little less strange.

As long as I practice C&R, the only places I am actually required to have a trout stamp to fish year round would be in Class A, wilderness trout streams, and special regulations waters.

On stocked streams you only need it from March 1 to May 31, and for about half of that time most of those are actually closed to all fishing anyway

And based on all that, I apparently don't need a trout stamp to fish for Steelhead or lake run browns as long as I throw them all back.

 

[wbranch]

should the cost of the Erie stamp be increased?

That might work for many of the fishermen but what about guys like me who have grandfathered licenses, trout stamps, and Lake Erie permits? I guess in the big picture it is a relatively small group of anglers who in a decade or two won't even be in the equation any more.

 

[SteveG]

I was under the impression that some money from the trout/salmon stamp went toward raising smolts. If not, I don't have as bad of a taste in my mouth for having to get one since I don't fish for Great Lakes steelhead.

 

[pcray1231]

Not 100% sure, but I don't think so. Still, I don't fish for stocked fish very often and the money goes towards raising them. It is what it is.

 

[SteveG]

Same here pcray. I wish they had a "trout conservation" stamp that's no harvest, and a majority of proceeds go to stream restoration and wild trout management. I hate buying a trout stamp knowing that proceeds go toward hatcheries.

 

[pcray1231]

I don't mind it. I mean, I do like splitting up costs based on what you use. But you gotta draw a line somewhere. Otherwise there'd be 1000 different stamps. I mean, we could have a special reg stamp, a boat launch stamp, a fish commission property stamp, etc.

They are going to spend money on something you don't personally use. It's government! Of course they are.