PA Fish and Boat, experiment with larger fingerlings

[Acristickid]

This impacts the yough and Allegheny rivers in regard to stocking of fingerlings.

trout experiment

 

[turkey]

Interesting.

 

[salmonoid]

Interesting that they are starting an experiment but have no way to measure the results, except for voluntary angler logbook surveys.. Response to surveys is notoriously bad (regardless of the subject matter or survey delivery method). Seems like they should just state that they are increasing stocking for 2016...

 

[Fishidiot]

Short version: the PFBC will be stocking larger fingerling trout in the Yough and Allegheny Rivers in the fall.

I would guess that with the fin clipped larger fish, an electrosurvey could at least shed some light on whether the bigger fish have better survival. Current studies with muskies (a hard fish to sample with low catch returns) are showing a strong, growing body of evidence that larger fingerlings do much better. Trout and muskies are, obviously, apples and oranges, but studies like this are usually worthwhile, even if the outcomes are not rock solid. In particular, I'd be interested to see if both waters show the same outcomes (to the extent that they can be measured). Hopefully, PAFF folks who fish these waters regularly will chime in on what they notice, if anything.

NOTE: I have edited the title line and will be moving this thread to general forum.

 

[turkey]

I can't speak to the Allegheny but the Yough is funny. There is so much water that is unable to be waded. 9-ish river miles that are only accessible be foot, bike, or boat. You could hide a Winnebago in some of the holes. IMO the Commision will never be able to gauge a return on their piscatorial investment. That said, I'll be excited to try and catch some adipose-less trouts.

 

[krayfish2]

Guess it's time for me to finally pick up an e-z pass.

 

[geebee]

I guess they will be good on toast with ketchup ?


seriously though, i have read that if the stream has sufficient depth and cover, then larger fingerlings suffer much less predation but are still a lot less expensive than adults. this was an MA study i think - Deerfield or Farmington river.

cheers

Mark

 

[bigjohn58]

I am not a fan of fingerlings. Fishing Creek in Clinton County has been stocked with fingerlings (3-4") for a few years now. All it does is bring in an increased amount of predators (otters, herons, merganzers, eagles, etc.) There was a group of about 25 merganzers hanging out on Fishing Creek for about a month until they cleaned out all the fingerlings they wanted. Very very few if any make it to the next season it seems.

Ok I just read a little bit of the article...how is an 8" fish a fingerling? In some of the streams around here certain years thats the average size they stocked for opening day?

 

[krayfish2]

To be honest, stocking 3" fish below Kinzua and in the Yough is doing nothing more than feeding the bigger fish living in the river.... and there's plenty of those.

 

[SteveG]

IMO, any size stocked fish are easy prey.

 

[CRB]

The warm fall will lead all stocked trout to be bigger in 2016.

 

[geebee]

SteveG wrote:
IMO, any size stocked fish are easy prey.

oh yeah, in those rivers as well as lunker trout turning up you'll get some very healthy Walleye and Bass too I'm sure.

its always going to be like dropping a farm boy into NYC whatever the size of stockies - dumb noob vs wised up predators.

I think the trophies going into these new stocked DHALO sections will be the same - "oh look how nice, a big flying thing with long sharp claws. hello mr flying thing...aaaaaahhhhh !"

P

 

[DaveS]

Back in 2010 or 2011, there was an additional stocking of surplus fish and those were bigger than normal fingerling, IIRC. Anyway, this was where the Yough seemed to start coming around in terms of better fishing. This was also a major topic when the PAFBC held a meeting for public comment at Nemacolin Woodlands in (Fall ?) 2014.

Maybe some other members can chime in about that meeting. I know I was asked by several people to attend.

I think bigger fish stand a better chance to grow into mature fish. But ultimately, the quality of the Yough is linked to the relative health of the Casselman River. As the Casselman improves, so to will the Yough.

And if the ACOE could save some cold water for August and September, that would help too.

 

[LetortAngler]

Since little or no natural reproduction occurs below Confluence, I am for the stocking of fingerling. This article was posted by the gazette back in May 2015 estimating the survival rate of fingerlings was around 12.5%.


http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/outdoors/2015/05/24/Cooperation-among-Youghiogheny-River-trout-stocking-groups-could-improve-research/stories/201505240072

 

[StarvinMarvin]

S0 12.5% make it, I'll take it.
87.5% are not or just not bein captured.
As Kray stated before, these fingerling are food for the big fish. The 12.5% that make it we'll grow to an adequate size where down the road they will eat their fingerling friends. If it's cost effective and can sustain then why not do if. If these smedium figerlings are having a better success rate then small fingerlings let's do it. Maybe we'll get a success rate of 25% and down the road the number of big fish could double. Instead of having to swim around for 3 small fries, I'm sure the big fish will be content eating a quarter pounder.

 

[bearfisherman]

I always thought the EB Clarion would be a great place for an experiment like this. Not as many predators as the big rivers.

 

[Mike]

Gee bee,
Just a general comment about fingerling trout stockings...Strictly from an economic standpoint, stocked fingerling trout are not that cheap. The short explanation is that you need twenty-five percent in-stream survival to adult size, which has not been achieved very frequently. Otherwise, delivering adult trout is cheaper.

 

[Chaz]

Not much will be learned from this attempt at science. We already know that in the past the larger the fingerlings PFBC stocks the better chance for survival. Why use up funds for something they already know? Money's tight.
They've got to get away from spending money on hatchery trout.

 

[krayfish2]

Spin off topic since someone said little or no reproduction occurs below Confluence:

Has any spawning been recorded between the dam outlet and the bridge in Confluence?

Spawning is primarily associated with feeder creeks. With that said, the Oneiata study on the Delaware river system did show a rather large number of fish that spawned in the main river. I'm wondering if there's a possibility that this also occurs in the Yough. Some of the fish I've netted and photos from other anglers make me believe there's some natural reproduction going on somewhere in that river.

 

[vcregular]

So true KF. A viable study is to better understand wild trout reproduction in larger rivers/streams. Yough. Penns. Allegheny. Lehigh. Etc.

Where did the 25% survival rate come from wrt to stocked fingies? How is that determined?