Overlining or under?

[IdratherbePhishing]

Possibly a stupid question but wondering. Is it better to underline which I do already on some rods I own or overline which I have not done. I know there was a recent thread but don't recall much about Overlining. If it was I apologize.

 

[tomgamber]

I guess it would depend on how you want to alter the action of the rod. That will be the result.

a previous discussion

 

[Coughlin]

Don't know why I'd underline, but I overline regularly in the 3-4 line range for roll casting on small streams and in the 5-7 range for windy conditions.
Coughlin

 

[dryflyguy]

I often overline my rods. That also allows me to get by with less reel/line combos.
I fish a 5 weight line on my 4 and 5 weight rods.
And also fish a 3 weight line on my 2 and 3 weight rods

 

[turkey]

http://www.common-cents.info/glossary.htm

 

[Phish_On]

I think underlining is better the over llining. You get more backbone with a line weight smaller. Just my .02$

 

[troutpoop]

Much of the answer is dependent on the rod blank and its composition and flex point. I prefer to overline by 1/2 weight. I like to feel the rod loading.
The more simple answer is that overlining will slow the rod down and underlining will speed it up.

 

[PennKev]

tomgamber wrote:
I guess it would depend on how you want to alter the action of the rod. That will be the result.

a previous discussion

Except that you are not changing the action of the rod. You are merely loading the rod less/more.

A fast rod will always be a fast rod, a slow rod will always be a slow rod. All that is changed by over/underlining a rod is the load on the rod at a given casting distance. Think of this: a fast action rod does not become a slow action rod when a fish puts a bend in it.

Also, overall stiffness does not define action. However, stiffness does dictate the over/underlining possibilities of a rod. There are so many complaints about fast action rods being stiff and the action takes the blame. It is the stiffness that is the problem. The rods are being designed to handle the load of carrying a lot of line and casting long distances but the majority of casters are using the rods with less line in the air and at shorter diestances. This is why overlining is prevelant but underlining is done less often.


Kev

 

[pete41]

You might think underlining a rod would allow you to make longer casts but it actually has the opposite effect,as I found out the hard [costly]way.It prevents you from properly loading the rod to shoot the head where the weight is concentrated.
This of course is with weight forward lines.
DT it might work,I never tried it.However you would need more line on backcasts so what was the reason for underlining?
Tired old minds are curious.

 

[GreenWeenie]

PennKev is pretty much spot on.

If you buy a good rod and fish it under the conditions it was meant to be fished, you shouldn’t have to overline or underline it. If you find yourself doing that the majority of the time you probably bought a poorly made rod or the wrong rod for the type of fishing you are doing.

 

[pete41]

and if you wonder if it's a poorly made rod,look at the guide spacing compared to a top of the line one.
That will tell you ,you should have stayed out of K-mart.lol

 

[Chaz]

IT depends on the rod and your casting style, over lining slows down the action of a rod, underlining speeds up the action of the rod. IMHO, not all rod actions are the same, there's a lot of variation from one manufacturer to another and even within a manufacturer. I don't do either, except myIMX 4 wt cast better with a 5wt line on it, so I'll probably replace that line with another 5 wt line.
That' the only rodI've done that on that I use regularly. I have both a 9 wt and 10 wt line for my 9 wt RPLX. That way I can punch into the wind when fishing salt with it.

 

[Swattie87]

I'd agree overlining is probably more common than underlining. Rods are rated based on having a certain amount of line (30 feet most of the time IIRC) out in the casting stroke. This amount of line (of a certain line weight that it's rated for) provides the appropriate weight to load the rod per the design of the manufacturer. Often times we are actually fishing/casting with less line out than the rods were rated for. In order to achieve a similar load on the rod with less line out, you need a line heavier than what the rod was rated for.

IMO this is most practical with smaller "Brookie" rods where you're looking to cast short distances on relatively small streams most of the time. In most of the Brookie streams I fish, a 30 foot cast is completely out of the question most of the time. I have two Brookie rods (both 4 wts) and will often overline them with 5 wt line. I know some guys go up two line weights even on Brookie rods, although I wouldn't recommend going any more than that. That said I think Brookie rod manufacturers are beginning to take this into account and are starting to rate their rods based on having less than the 30 feet of line out. This would then provide less of a reason to overline. Bottom line it's a good idea to test your rods out with a couple different line weights and determine which will work best for you with that rod, and the type of fishing you'll be likely to do with it.

My larger stream rods I generally fish at their intended line weight because it is more often that I have the 30 feet (or close to it) of line out that the rod was rated for.

Hope that helps ya.

 

[tomitrout]

gulp....gotta agree with GW on this.

For those that are having to over or under line their rods. Didn't you test cast them before purchasing? I mean, if I'm looking for a 4wt brookie rod, then I'm gonna give it a workout in the lawn/parking lot w/ a 4wt line at the distances I plan to use it for. I just don't understand why you would need to change the spec'd line weight if you bought the right rod in the first place.

 

[pcray1231]

It might "slow" the action some, but I'm mostly with PennKev, it's not about slowing or speeding up the rod. It's about properly loading the rod, getting the action the rod is supposed to have.

I didn't do the math, but pretend I did to show the point. To the rod, is there a difference between, say, 20 ft of 6wt line, 30 ft of 5 wt line, or 40 ft of 4 wt line? No, not really. In all cases it's moving about the same weight of actual fly line, the load is the same, the rod speed is the same.

Now, use 5 wt line for all of those distances, and NOW you're rod speed changes with distance. Throw 60 ft of line with a 5 wt on a rod weighted for a 5 wt, and suddenly you got yourself a SLOW rod. It's overloaded.

So bottom line. The goal is to PROPERLY load the rod. Ask yourself, are you typically fishing this rod at closer or longer distances than the rod manufacturer intended? If closer, you should lean towards overlining a bit. If farther, you should lean toward underlining a bit. If the same, take the rod manufacturer's recommendation.

At least as a starting point. Try it, and then adjust as you like. FWIW, my small stream rods are overloaded, sometimes I even throw a 7 wt line on a 7 1/2' rod weighted at 4/5 wt. My big stream rods I pretty much go with the recommendation of the rod.

 

[Swattie87]

tomi - Can't speak for anyone else, but I do a lot of my fishing on VERY small, higher gradient Brookie streams. A lot of the casting is me standing on a ledge or rock in the plunge pool immediately downstream of the one I'm fishing. Most of my casting on these streams involves having about 10-15 feet of line out on average. Most rods, even Brookie rods, weren't rated for those conditions. The extra line weight helps load the rod with that little bit of line out, and I find it's easier to get the fly to turn over up to the head of the pool, or wherever it is I'm trying to get it to. In really tight situations I may be just "dapping" the fly down with only 5 or 6 feet of line out. The little bit of extra line weight just helps with this IMO, and keeps the line/leader/tippet from collapsing on themselves a little better I think. Could it be done with 4 wt line, sure, but it's easier and more effective with the heavier 5 wt line IMO.

One other reason, which doesn't really apply to overlining and loading the rod, is that I just like the lighter rod from a sport perspective. One of my 4 wts is very light for a 4 wt (It looks and feels more like a 2 or 3 wt IMO)...I generally use this one for throwing dries in the warmer months. A 6" Brookie is a lot more fun on this rod than my heavier 4 weight, or my 5 wt, etc.

 

[tomitrout]

If that's the case then, then why not buy a slower glass or cane rod that will work for you with only 10-20' feet out the tip in the first place and still have enough backbone to reach out 40-50' if asked? They do make 'em...

 

[GreenWeenie]

You can’t underline a rod with WF line to increase distance for the reason stated by Pete. A WF line after 30+/- feet turns into a thin running line and distance casting with a WF line is about aerializing the WF head and then shooting it for distance so you are actually doing yourself as disservice by underlining your rod. And if you are trying to false cast a WF line beyond the 30’ WF belly your cast is going to fall apart pretty quickly because the running line doesn’t have the strength to support and turn itself over. If you wish to add distance you should underline with a DT line but adding distance by switching to a 4wt DT line on a 5wt rod isn’t going to cut through the wind like a true 5wt because the mass in the line is less - you're still casting a 4wt line.

The reality is if you need to cast 50 feet on a continuous basis, buy a rod designed to do that and if you are fishing at close distances, buy that rod too. Tomi is correct, test the rod under the conditions you intend to use it.

 

[Swattie87]

tomitrout wrote:
If that's the case then, then why not buy a slower glass or cane rod that will work for you with only 10-20' feet out the tip in the first place and still have enough backbone to reach out 40-50' if asked? They do make 'em...

Yeah, I've tried glass, and considered it when buying my last 4 wt (the lighter of the two). Cabelas CGR line was in the mix. It was just a bit too slow for me. The action of both of my Brookie rods are mod/fast...the lighter of the two being a touch closer to the moderate end probably. With either, I'll still find myself throwing a small BH Bugger into a deep hole, or even fishing most of the day with one in the Winter. Glass was just too slow for that and my casting stroke I guess. In theory, I tend to agree w/pcray. Loading the rod properly will give you the action the rod was intended to produce. In my case, I want a mod/fast action, so IMO the best way to get that in close quarters fishing is to slightly overline a mod/fast rod.

Don't have a lot of experience with Bamboo, but the main downside there is cost. Don't wanna take that expensive of a rod into the close quarters of Brookie streams. I don't like to spend much more than $150 or so on a Brookie rod.

 

[dryflyguy]

tomitrout wrote:
gulp....gotta agree with GW on this.

For those that are having to over or under line their rods. Didn't you test cast them before purchasing? I mean, if I'm looking for a 4wt brookie rod, then I'm gonna give it a workout in the lawn/parking lot w/ a 4wt line at the distances I plan to use it for. I just don't understand why you would need to change the spec'd line weight if you bought the right rod in the first place.

First of all - I've bought several of my rods by mail order or online.
Pretty hard to test cast them when you do that. Also, there's a difference between test casting a rod in a parking lot or lawn under perfect conditions. And actually fishing with it for awhile

I bought my 2 weight - a loomis IMX - from FFP 20 years ago. It was on closeout, and I got a great deal on it - mail order. Wasn't about to drive 3 hours to test cast it before hand.
And I fished it with the proper line for the first few years I had it. And it worked OK. Although I had some trouble on windy days, and on small streams where I wasn't casting long enough distances to load it fully.
So, I tried a 3 weight line on it next - and just like the overall performance better.
It's just personal preference