Outlaws

Even with stiffer penalties, neither agency currently has an adequate numbers of law enforcement staff to cover the state. Many counties are basically not covered by PFBC law enforcement. Level of enforcement needs to be increased before stiffer penalties will have an effect. The PFBC license increase should help address this issue.
 
Not sure I understand the logic. I could see adding more wardens for increased coverage but if you had much stiffer penalties then there would be less bad behavior which would equal less enforcement activity. I mean this is commons sense....right?

Ron
 
I fully understand your logic, but for example Clinton Co went 3+ years without a WCO with minimal coverage at best. It didn't matter what penalties for poaching trout, etc were. The outlaws were going to continue to outlaw until there was sufficient law enforcement presence that at least made it possible for the individuals to get caught. Without any chance of getting caught, stiff penalties are not going to minimize outlaw activity alone.
 
It is well known on here that I do a lot of bait fishing. What I don't get, is why, with all the miles and miles of water that you can fish bait legally on, and with all the miles of water that big trout are available(not just big put and take stockers), that one would want to fish these sections illegally as if they are the only places to get a trout/large trout.

Really pathetic actually. What clowns, I hope this situation is resolved.
 

There is more than enough illegal activity to go around...anglers, boaters, illegal trade, pollution. It's not as though there will be a surplus of officers and no perps to find if the agency is brought up to compliment, regardless of the fine structure. Not only that, but some investigations take an extended period of time, which means while a thorough investigation is taking place the time spent on those complexities is not being spent observing other anglers.
 
Brown71 -

Its due to bad upbringing and the entitled mindset. Daddy and Grand Daddy did the same over the years and they feel challenge, entitled and never got caught. If they got caught it was just a slap on the wrist or a warning. They just can't help themselves. It's really a society problem that we deal with and not even a poaching or using bait issue. Deeper rooted issue that can only be addressed through stiffer fines and enforcement. We can complain about all we want but until the laws are straightened and enforced....we will just talk about it. You can add another thousand wardens but that won't help if the laws are not going to be effective and make these idiots think about breaking the law. Fix the laws and then hire the wardens as needed.

Ron
 
Palongbow, yea your right on man. For some reason it seems that entitlement mentality is really bad here in certain areas of PA to boot.
 
Brown71 - Agreed. If you only knew half of it. It's a shame. Hunting and fishing in PA has been plagued by this bad behavior for years and the laws do nothing to correct it.

Ron
 

I agree there is a societal reason for such behavior.

But the laws in PA have been strengthened, yet violation incidents are up. The poacher know the chances of being caught are so low because of the lack of enforcement officers from both the Fish or Game Commissions that the laws are really worth the paper they are written on.

From a recent article >

New Pennsylvania laws haven't curbed the worst cases of wildlife poaching.

But the strong new laws haven't curbed wildlife poaching....The number of incidents of thrill killing have increased significantly with poaching now occurring in all 67 counties in the state. Palmer described it as a disturbing trend in Pennsylvania and other states, as well.

In response, the PGC has increased its enforcement presence and begun targeting poachers and thrill killers with large-scale, organized task forces.

Link to Source >https://www.post-gazette.com/sports/hunting-fishing/2012/12/02/New-Pennsylvania-laws-haven-t-curbed-the-worst-cases-of-wildlife-poaching/stories/201212020216

Both the fish and game commission need more enforcement officers. Their number is at an all time low give the budget for law enforce has be cut for decades.
 
I don’t get it. I mean, I do, but I really don’t.

What’s the allure here? I’m assuming these guys aren’t simply out C&R’ing these fish for fun before the OD crowd yanks them out. Do these dudes really want those fresh stockers for the table? Don’t get me wrong, I’ll keep and eat a stocker or two if I turn up one in a small wild Trout stream mid-Summer, but by then they’ve long taken on a wild diet and they taste pretty darn good. Have you ever had a muddy, silty batch of blue crabs before? That’s what the fresh hatchery feed stockers taste like…mush. They need a good solid month on a wild diet, more ideally, before they'll firm up and taste halfway decent.

Is it for a wall trophy with those KS fish? Yeah, they’re big, but darn those big ones are usually ugly. The get bigger and spend more time confined in the raceways and get far more tore up than the normal sized ones. Who’d want that on your wall? Heaven forbid these guys ever catch a nice wild Brown by mistake and learn what a wild fish looks like instead.
 
The current laws and penalties are nothing but a slap on the wrist. They tried to 'strengthen trespassing laws as part of the Sunday hunting bill and after reading it line for line nothing changes between whats now law and the so called proposed straightening of the law....both are summary charges with piddly fines. I just wonder why the state agencies continue to impose such piddly laws and fines and then try to pass them on to us as strengthening of laws.

Ron
 
PALongbow wrote:
The current laws and penalties are nothing but a slap on the wrist. They tried to 'strengthen trespassing laws as part of the Sunday hunting bill and after reading it line for line nothing changes between whats now law and the so called proposed straightening of the law....both are summary charges with piddly fines. I just wonder why the state agencies continue to impose such piddly laws and fines and then try to pass them on to us as strengthening of laws.

Ron
Click to expand...

^Did you read the article? We are talking a poaching here. I gave you an article to read to demonstrate that stricter laws without law enforcement are meaningless.

Quotes from the article:

The former penalty for shooting a deer at night using a light was $200 to $300.

Under the (new) law, first-time offenders caught jacklighting a deer, killing a deer or turkey out of season or exceeding the deer or turkey bag limit face 90 days imprisonment, a fine of at least $1,000 and a three-year loss of hunting privileges. First-offense convictions for bear or elk violations could result in a fine up to $3,000, as much as six months in jail or the loss of hunting license privileges for up to five years. Serial poaching or committing multiple illegal kills in a single episode is a felony that carries fines of up to $15,000 and 36 months in jail.

Nevertheless, the new laws have not curbed the trend in thrill-kill poaching. The number of poaching cases has significantly increased since the laws were enacted.


Again, laws with stiffer penalties are not the answer without law enforcement!

Because of budget cuts from no increases in license fees for more than two decades, the number of officers in the field is now so few, poachers and law breakers have pretty much free reign.

I blame the politicians in the state legislature for this along with those license buyers that are okay with allowing the situation to continue on for so long and feel they are saving money. In actuality, the real costs are rather high.




 
afishinado: I totally agree. The cause and effect is crystal clear.
 
Fact is you can add 1000 more officers and your still not going to have a major impact on this behavior. Raise the fines as high as you like but do you really think this crowd pays their fines. That's actually kind of funny.

I choose to confront the bucket people when I see them. It happens maybe once a year where I see a clear no bones about it infraction. I don't walk by only to complain about somebody else not doing something. I don't do it in an angry I'm going to kick your *** fashion but I let them know they are breaking the law and I'm not okay with it. Bad behavior will continue if we allow it. Bad behavior will stop when people think they are being watched.
 
Swattie -

Some of the allure is this - There is a relatively widespread belief in PA that the state has "taken" the "best water" into which they place "the biggest trout (stockers)" from the bait fisherman & given it to the "fly snobs". Quite a few people really do believe that DHALO, Keystone Select, FFO, etc. designations are based upon those stretches of moving water being "the best water". Therefore, those people who believe this are mad about it & feel F the laws, I'm going to go get mine.
 
Use your cell phones take pictures and license plate numbers the officers do pay attention to the emails.and phone calls. When the fines stack up these poachers move on. I have seen it first hand on the steelhead streams.
 
D-nymph wrote:
Swattie -

Some of the allure is this - There is a relatively widespread belief in PA that the state has "taken" the "best water" into which they place "the biggest trout (stockers)" from the bait fisherman & given it to the "fly snobs". Quite a few people really do believe that DHALO, Keystone Select, FFO, etc. designations are based upon those stretches of moving water being "the best water". Therefore, those people who believe this are mad about it & feel F the laws, I'm going to go get mine.
Click to expand...

Such people will always attempt to justify ignoring the regs whether there is zero special regs areas or it is all special regs.
 
Correct. If there were no special regs areas, these poachers would target private property. It's a forbidden fruit. If access is restricted, it MUST be better.
 
Poachers often hit stocked streams before opening day, whether the regs are general or special.
 
It's unfortunate but not surprising. Loyalhanna is slob city. Garbage everywhere the last time I went. I have pretty much written it off and won't go there anymore.
 
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