Opinion of fingerling stockings

[bigjohn58]

I hear this weekend one of the streams I fish a lot is getting a rainbow fingerling stocking again. This stream has been getting fingerling stockings for a while now and last year got a lot of them. After catching hundreds of trout from this stream this year I have yet to catch one of these fingerlings that were stocked last year. I caught a ton of them (annoying almost like catching chubs) last year to the point I quit fishing the stream. There are lots of wild browns, muskrats, mink, and an occasional ofsprey, eagle, and otter. Do these fingerlings even survive? I'm really thinking these fingerling stockings are a total waste of money. What do you guys think?

 

[PocketWater]

http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/outdoors/2015/05/24/Cooperation-among-Youghiogheny-River-trout-stocking-groups-could-improve-research/stories/201505240072

This article, just posted a few days ago, talks about fingerling stocking on the Yough. It says that around 12% of fingerlings survive.

 

[RRR]

bigjohn I guess my question would be, how do you know that some of the "tons of trout" that you've caught are not from last year's or some previous year's stocking? Do they also stock adult rainbows in this stream or are you catching all wild browns? I have a stream not far from me that ONLY receives fingerlings, both brown and rainbow, and they have been doing this for quite a few years. Both species seem to be doing quite well. Could it be that you inadvertintly killed alot of the fingerlings you say you caught last year right after they were stocked? I know that they are very fragile at that stage of life. Perhaps there were many other people, possibly bait fishermen, that were catching them as well. Other than those possibilities, if the water quality is good enough to sustain wild browns, I can see no reason why they shouldn't do well.

 

[bigjohn58]

They stock adult rainbows and a few brookies...trust me its not hard to figure out these stocked rainbows. Missing fins etc. The fingerlings wouldn't be looking this bad. Plus this stream its very very easy to tell a hold over rainbow. They are some of the prettiest rainbows you can catch and this year I have yet to catch any which is honestly very odd. Lots of stockie rainbows and brooks and a couple of wild browns mixed in.

 

[troutbert]

What stream are we talking about? It makes a difference. Fingerlings may do well in some streams and not well at all in others.

 

[bigjohn58]

Fishing Creek in the Mill Hall area.

 

[troutbert]

That section is Class A wild browns. The ideal thing would be to end all stocking, and make it no or low harvest.

But social & political pressures are what they are.

So they probably are stocking some adult trout and some fingerlings to placate the people who would go screaming to their legislators if all stocking was ended.

 

[bigjohn58]

Yeah I totally agree that stocking should not be on Fishing Creek BUT the locals would not approve of that. Too many meat hunters in the area who want to catch and eat everything. Very few people who fish Fishing Creek outside of the narrows section hold the wild brown as a fish that should be protected. I wish that these people could be educated but its honestly not really possible. I have little issue with the stockings of adult trout however. The browns seem to have no issue with the stocking of the adult rainbows and every rainbow that is stocked and not eaten holds over to the next season without any issue.

The fingerlings are a way for the fish commission to reduce stockings BUT if none of them survive isn't that just a waste of money? I already know they wasted tons of money with the stupid shad stockings on the West Branch Susquehanna.

 

[attackone]

if my memory is right, when they stocked the J after the fingerling stockings they didnt find any

 

[salmonoid]

I think a very interesting study would be to do some quantitative analysis of the different types of stocking methods used (and their costs) vs. the impact on the angling public (i.e. how many anglers catch and creel or catch and release one of the stocked trouts or grown up fingerlings). It would be really hard to capture all of the angling effort on a stream, but at least you'd start to see that for A expenditure, you gain Z angling fulfillment. Figure out what combination of X fingerlings + Y adult fish = Z optimal angling satisfaction. Throw in a W wild fish variable too - see how X and Y change W, or better yet if W>0, then X=Y=0.

 

[mikesl]

For what it's worth - stating the obvious, but fish that have acclimated to life in the wild are much more fun to fish for and catch.

Of course wild is best, but if i had to pick a type of stocked trout, i would prefer those that came up as fingerlings to those dumped in as adults

I think that habitat should dictate where in a particular stream the fish can be found, not where the stocking truck has easy access.

 

[bigjohn58]

mikesl wrote:

For what it's worth - stating the obvious, but fish that have acclimated to life in the wild are much more fun to fish for and catch.

Of course wild is best, but if i had to pick a type of stocked trout, i would prefer those that came up as fingerlings to those dumped in as adults

I think that habitat should dictate where in a particular stream the fish can be found, not where the stocking truck has easy access.

I agree with what you said here BUT I'm not asking whether you are for or against stockings or fingerlings or whatever just that if they even survive. If none of them survive like attackone said happened in the Little J then whats the point of doing it? Seems like such a waste of money and time.

salmonoid- that would be a great thing to figure out! I mean I have no problem fishing for stocked fish BUT I get much more enjoyment out of catching wild or native fish over the stockies. I get much more enjoyment of catching a holdover over a stockie. Stockie is at the bottom of the list for me but for people keeping fish I think the majority do not care. I just wish people could be educated better in wild and native fish and learn more of an appreciation for them. If that were the case Fishing Creek would never need stocked.

 

[MKern]

I swear it took me about five years to consistently catch grown up fingerlings in the kish. For the first four years they put them in I never caught any past the fall. But now I catch some quite often.

 

[dryflyguy]

Big John,

Just curious - now that they'e stocking fingerlings in Fishing Creek, are they still stocking legal size fish also?
I'm also of the opinion though, that no part of that stream needs stocking of any kind,

I used to fish lower Bald Eagle Creek a lot - below Milesburg.
But the fingerlings they've been stocking there have been quite annoying to me too.
And frankly, I think they're probably just feeding the larger trout - along with the muskies

 

[Maurice]

So you have a class A wild brown trout population. Meaning natural reproduction is abundant probably to the point of carrying capacity for the stream section. Then you stock adult rainbow trout for the local creeling crowd. And on top of that you stock a buttload of fingerlings for whatever reason? Its no wonder that the fingerlings end up at the bottom of the food chain. Afterall they were raised to an early age on fishmeal every day and now have to forage for themselves in a stream that has reached its carrying capacity.

Now there some mud thrown at the wall that will never stick.

 

[bigjohn58]

Maurice wrote:
So you have a class A wild brown trout population. Meaning natural reproduction is abundant probably to the point of carrying capacity for the stream section. Then you stock adult rainbow trout for the local creeling crowd. And on top of that you stock a buttload of fingerlings for whatever reason? Its no wonder that the fingerlings end up at the bottom of the food chain. Afterall they were raised to an early age on fishmeal every day and now have to forage for themselves in a stream that has reached its carrying capacity.

Now there some mud thrown at the wall that will never stick.

This is no issue on Fishing Creek. The stream I am sure is far from carrying capacity.

In a perfect world Fishing Creek would be catch and release or have some other sort of special harvesting regulation on it but that I doubt will ever be the case. We all on this site know this for the most part.

The point of my post is just to figure out how much of a waste of money these fingerling stockings are. They have been doing it for 4 or 5 years now with last year being the most they have ever stocked I'm pretty sure. They seem completely non existent in the stream this year. Its very easy to tell the difference when a rainbow is caught on Fishing Creek whether its a stockie or holdover. These fingerlings should be looking just like the holdovers. I've caught probably between 200-300 rainbows this year and none have been the holdovers of years past that I used to catch regularly. Honestly most years stockie to holdover rainbow ratios were almost 50/50 a lot of my trips. A few wild browns have been mixed in along with the stocked brookies. Just doing my own survey here and I'm seeing a 0% survival rate of these fingerlings especially last year's stockings. I also know that predator non fish species have increased in the last 5 years around the area (otters, muskrats, mink, eagles, mergansers).

I like the idea of fingerling stockings BUT it seems like its a worthless cause that just does not work or benefit anyone.

 

[Chaz]

Fishing Creek is proposed for Class A Status in the lower reaches, it has been Class A in all other sections from the headwaters up near I 80 all the way to the lower section at Mill Hall. It may not be at its carrying capacity, but it's not nowhere near carrying capacity. It's big water in the lower reaches, and as such takes a lot of trout to get 40 K/H for Class A status. A lot more trout than up in the headwaters where the creek is small.
Could PFBC stop stocking Fishing Creek? Yes they could, they could dump those fish elsewhere. Would it cause a storm of objections, Certainly? Special regs? I don't know it would need them if they just stopped stocking the creek it would attain Class A status without regs.

 

[mikesl]

I think there were studies that suggested fingerling stocking was a decent idea in places where suitable spawning substrate was the limiting factor in size of a wild population.

Tailwaters often fall into that category I think? (Poho, e.g?)

 

[Stenonema]

How do you know what the carrying capacity is? .

 

[Tups]

MKern: I am curious about the Kish Creek fingerlings. Are these stocked at Reedsville, or somewhere else on the stream? Why do you suppose the grown-up rainbows are more difficult to catch? The Kish appears to have a popn of wild browns, and I would have assumed that the browns would be harder to fool.