Opening Day

WOW! TALK ABOUT MISINFORMATION. This stream is not even the heaviest stocked stream in the county it is in, let alone the state.

This is the exact type of information I am talking about being posted that is detrimental to a stream.

I was wrong as you obviously get my points above and just don't care.

The Concerned Angler
 
Thats right, you win, I guess I don't care...lets go back to the picture ok?
 
Jack,

I wish it worked the way you are describing, but it really doesn't. I see this issue no different than the "Kiss and Tell" books that so many people complain about. Every time a stream or lake or whatever is publicized in a positive way, as opposed to the publicity that the Driftwood branch recieved late last summer after the chemical spill, it becomes more crowded. Maybe the folks who travel to fish very often don't care because the go elsewhere, but those of us who live on/near the streams do care.

Ask the folks who live over in Erie their "perceptions" of the same type of problem. Ask them why they post thier land. Ask them if it is related to low fishing pressure or high fishing pressure that brings with it slobs who litter, cause traffic jams, poop in people's front yards, etc. You do not typically have these problems if there are not a ton of people to do it. If you ask the folks who have been fishing over there for many years, they will tell you stories about when it was different, BEFORE it was put out there for everyone.

Give it some thought.

How many boats can the Mon river hold? How many folks along the shorelines? More than the streams I am concerned about in this post, but it would be just as tragic if it happened there too.

We just need to put some more thought into this before we open our mouths or keyboards.
 
I think you are presuming that only people who share your view have "put thought into" their opinion. You can feel free to hold your beliefs, but I don't think they stem purely from altruism as you seem to suggest.
 
by JackM on 2007/4/15 11:12:48

I think you are presuming that only people who share your view have "put thought into" their opinion. You can feel free to hold your beliefs, but I don't think they stem purely from altruism as you seem to suggest.

Jack,

I know that everyone with an opinion has "put thought into it", but how many analize the stance of people of differing or opposite opinions. How many have thought of the consequences of what they do down the line? In this topic, I have, as I have been guilty of the same mistakes I am complaining of, only now I see what I helped create some years ago. Altruism doesn't even fit into this as far as I am concerned.

The Concerned Angler
 
Padraic, Dkile, or whoever else is a moderator can remove my post if they please. I didn't mean to cause so much harm to whoever I offended. Guess the humor in my post was quickly lost sad to say and I hate seeing posts like these.
 
One good thing about publicity is, it CAN actually reduce pressure.

I make my annual trip with two friends to North-Central PA over Memorial Day Weekend. Last year among many other places; we fished the Upper Kettle Creek Basin and had fun; but the fish were small. This year we planned on fishing the main part of Kettle below the Class A sections.

With all of this talk about the number of cars and pressure on the main part of Kettle; I figure we'll just going to go fish someplace else. I value solitude more than fish size.

Isolated result of this instance of kiss and tell: there will be three less fishermen you'll see at Kettle that weekend. We'll be at locations "B - Z".

So you see, in my case at least; Jack M is right.

Thanks for the heads up!

Seriously.
 
Concerned_Angler wrote:

Jack,

I know that everyone with an opinion has "put thought into it", but how many analize the stance of people of differing or opposite opinions. How many have thought of the consequences of what they do down the line? In this topic, I have, as I have been guilty of the same mistakes I am complaining of, only now I see what I helped create some years ago. Altruism doesn't even fit into this as far as I am concerned.

The Concerned Angler

I am just puzzled in that while you portray your view on this topic as a matter of ethics and suggest that differing opinions represent mistakes that you have risen above, I notice that despite numerous streams that have been named here over the last two weeks, just as an example, you have only come forth to complain about it when Kettle Creek was highlighted. Now, maybe I'm off base, out-of-line and presumptuous in thinking that today is not the first day you visited this Board, but if I'm right that you have seen posts naming other streams in the past, what, besides the fact that you "fish [Kettle] year round" and have had to share the stream in March on a weekday with "other anglers" is your motivation for raising your "ethical concerns" now? :-?
 
After reading this and several other threads in the last month, I think it's safe to safe that Mother Nature sure has made a lot of GRUMPY fisherman in PA! Maybe we should have a code word/smiley face for sarcasm, then there be so much misundersatnding around here.
JH
 
Jack,

My only response is that today was the day I felt I had enough time to put up a fuss about something I care about. I cringe just as hard when I see other streams, some of which I fish, across the state in all regions posted on boards like this, which I feel just as strongly about. I also know that there are a lot of guys and gals out there that feel the same way about their home waters and therefore making this a "universal" issue worth discussing on a forum such as this.

As far as being on high moral ground, if you see it that way I am fine with that.

If you disagree, so be it. I like what I like and don't like what I don't like. If anyone has a problem with that, that's about them, not me and they can either find a way to deal with it or sit and fume over it instead of moving on with their lives.

In the end, if I am able to "educate/convert/change someone's opinion/whatever" to my way of thinking that's great. If not, oh well, I tried. I think it is better to try than to sit and complain about it to friends and never do anything about it.

My two cents.
 
Like you, I try to "educate/convert/change someone's opinion/whatever to my way of thinking" as well. And that is why when I disagree with you, I will voice my opinion, even if it means being disagreeable. I'm sure we could find many things we do agree on and maybe even enjoy discussing them over a beer at the Jamboree. It's in your neck of the woods this year. Maybe we'll see one another there. I hope it is OK if I spend part of one of my days on Kettle.
 
I spent the later part of the morning near Leidy Bridge.

People who started there were leaving with stringers full of rather large fish. There were still over 40 cars along the creek and no post on the internet will attract any more anglers (to that part of the creek anyway) because there just isn't room as it is. Maybe John was fishing another section entirely but they did sure stock the crap out of Kettle in that area.

Shame too...there weren't many fishermen below the dam this year because there weren't many either. Didn't take long for word to travel, without aid of the internet, and everyone was leaving one spot and all heading for leidy bridge.

I only fished there for about 45 minutes and went to a smaller creek. There was however a Palamino of the proportions John described, swimming in the second hole upstream from the bridge. Just a huge bright yellow blob moving here and there and back again.

I did see some caddis about 11:15 and the occasional blue quill. Went back to camp at noon for lunch and went to a nice class A in the afternoon. I try to like opening day, I really do. I like to go to camp for any reason but I figure I'll give it a go. I still, every year find it gluttonous and boring to sit and pick fish after fish from one single spot. I wish they'd get rid of opening day and just stock all year. Fishing on a creek should not be a static activity. I'd much rather have to actually find fish and then go about catching them. But I'm sure its much easier for the big white truck guys to dump them all in by the bridges a few days before the opener and have then still be there for the crowds.

Had a good time at camp...caught a couple stockies and a lot of wild fish. Weather was great...45-50 and sunny most of friday and sat. But the regular bait dunking guys who like to go to the spillway and below were kind of ticked that they didn't bother to put as many fish in below the dam as they did above.

Only bad part was getting a ticket on Fri the 13th on the way up friday...oh well.
 
i completely understand CA"S point on internet posting and stream names. but i also agree with jack on this one. the best way to remedy to problem is to post abnormal results full of 8lb trout from a stream void of any trout! :-D
 
Holly crap, dejavous all over again.

These are stocked trout. there is no need to be too "concerned." It may increase the pressure for a couple days, but it is temporary. They will make more, and anglers will follow the white trucks to the next stream. Of couse we could just keep talking about it forever which draws even more attention to it, extending the increased pressure.

As far as the picture goes, before breathable waders, I used to wet wade starting in about March for steelhead if the temps got much above 50. I'd rather be a little cold than sweat like a pig inside of neoprene or vinyl waders. The cold doesn’t bother me much, but this guy is clearly part polar bear.
 
Bamboozle wrote:
With all of this talk about the number of cars and pressure on the main part of Kettle; I figure we'll just going to go fish someplace else. I value solitude more than fish size.

Isolated result of this instance of kiss and tell: there will be three less fishermen you'll see at Kettle that weekend.
Yeah, nobody goes there anymore, because it's too crowded. :-D
 
So after all my "joking" about not going on the first day. I went out. It was to nice and with the pending storm I knew it would be a week before I get out again. I hit the stream about 4:30 saturday afternoon. Fished nymphs and buggers for the first 2 hours. Then the sun started to set I was not in a stream that was stocked, so no chance of a stocker feeding frenzy. I saw some small ripples from a bush on the other side of the stream. I threw on a custom made size 16 caddis. After some casts I saw a palomino feeding on what looked like BWO. Cast to him a few times he would go to it and turn away. A few casts later I had a fumbled cast and as the fly hit the water it got engulfed! The drag started screaming for a about 2 seconds then pop he was gone. I thought to myself WTF was that? I started casting again into the location where he had hit before thinking maybe there were more but ...nothing. After doing this for about 15 minutes it was getting dark and time to go. I reeled in my line looked at my fly and half the hook was gone. Good thing I did not get any other hits. Thats my the one that got away story for opening day 2007.
 
Dear Concerned Angler,

If you are really so concerned about Kettle Creek then ask PFBC to stop stocking the creek, that would go over big! Yeah, Kettle Creek is a deep dark secret, give me a break. The population of cars from year to year varies greatly. Who cares anyway about stocked fish they are there to be eaten. It's great that many anglers throw them back, but let's be honest, if the stockies aren't harvested from Kettle by July, most will die by the end of summer. Kettle Creek hasn't been a wild trout stream down in the stocked section for at least as long as I've been fishing the creek, I don't fish the stocked section so I'm not part of the problem, the problem is when anglers just refuse to spread out.
 
Concerned: You ought to recognize that this topic has been considered and debated on the Internet, including this message board for years. Many of us have given it a fair amount of thought. Intentionally or not, your posts suggest that those who disagree with you either don't understand your point or don't care about the resource. I don't think that's a fair characterization.

I do believe that posts on boards like this can have an adverse impact on crowding on some streams, and perhaps even in a few cases on the fishery. I know of a few decent (not great) streams that are within a couple hours driving distance of my home in the DC area which 7 or 8 years ago were not being talked about on-line or by DC anglers so far as I could tell, but which are now the subject of organized outings by groups from this area. My belief, though I cannot prove it, is that the Internet had something to do with that phenomenon. I now identify specific streams in my posts less often than I used to do. That said, there are some streams that are so large and so well-known, and so popular already, that it is hard to imagine a few more Internet posts making any appreciable difference in the crowds on, let alone the health of, those streams. Kettle Creek is one of those. Spring and Penns are two others. So is Pine (the big one). And the Little Lehigh.

Kettle Creek has received lots of national publicity over the past several decades, and has got to be among the 3 or 4 best-known trout streams in the state, perhaps THE best known.

I learned to flyfish on and around Kettle in the late 70s and early 80s. It was growing increasingly crowded even then, before the Internet was even a twinkle in Al Gore's eye. I wish that was not so, and if I thought it would get worse because of a post here stating that someone caught 35 stockies there while combat fishing on opening day, then I'd join you in condemning that post. I just don't find that plausible.
 
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