Old Dogs / New Tricks or My Venture Into Tight Line Nymphing

[PennKev]

Eh, maybe. Maybe not.

Sometimes it's hard to determine where dogma begins and ends in fly fishing. We saw it with dry fly fishing. We saw it with matching the hatch.

 

[afishinado]

I would note that leader/tippet diameter as well tracking angles impact sink rate tremendously. But that gets us into would comp guys use split shot if they were allowed? Absolutely they would but just only as often as they do when fishing for fun (not too often). Tracking a light leader setup, those little ticks, pauses, twitches are the only way to detect strikes 8/10 times. Adding shot would just take away from the contact your leader has to the fly. Always made me wonder about how many strikes go undetected with an indicator setup. Fish need to grab the fly and hold it until the indicator dips as well as holding on to all the weight of the shot/ drag the indicator is pulling underwater before you can even set the hook. Those types of takes are the ones you feel on a euro setup, which is only maybe 20% of the time. During my pa days most of my bread and butter weights are 2.3, 2.8mm, little heavier in NW Montana but those real heavy bomb flies you’re talking about has more to do with leader setup than water type I would say. But at the end of the day fishing is about having fun and some people enjoy different fishing techniques more than others, after all we all enjoy a niche called fly fishing in the fishing community as it is ! Cheers

To add to what PennKev wrote above, split-shot placed on the point replaces the "anchor fly" and does not take away any sensitivity or contact with your fly.

Using weighted flies works well only if you have a whole box of flies in multiple weights. The more casual nymph fisher can use small split shot to adjust weights without having all these flies. Using split-shots for weight opens up pretty much your whole fly box as choices of flies to fish including the match-the-hatch flies.

 

[Jessed]

I definitely agree shot is more easier to work with for a more casual fisherman. Not everyone fishes or has opportunities to fish x amount of days a year. As well as not everyone gets to tie their own flies or have time to load an arsenal of situational flies. Anyone reading this thread wanting to get started euro nymphing in Pennsylvania a plain Walt’s worm in 2.3, 2.8, 3.3mm (3.3 for deep faster water ) is as bread and butter as is comes.

 

[bringthepain]

Could anyone point me to some info on how to run a setup like this on a standard 9' 5wt or 6 wt rod? I saw some guys mention above that they fish this way but with standard equiptment. I'd love a simple leader setup where i could give this a try on the same rods and reels i'm using to indicator nymph. Thanks

 

[Schaefer406]

Could anyone point me to some info on how to run a setup like this on a standard 9' 5wt or 6 wt rod? I saw some guys mention above that they fish this way but with standard equiptment. I'd love a simple leader setup where i could give this a try on the same rods and reels i'm using to indicator nymph. Thanks

I run this setup for bigger water on my 10' 3wt, and I would think this would work well on a 9' 5wt as well.

- I would avoid a full mono rig for your 9' 5 wt.

RIG:
--> Orvis Tactical Nymph Line or equivalent (pretty sure they only make this in line sizes 1 -4 but depending on your rod and nymph weight I bet it would be ok) - This line also floats which makes it great for using an indy as well if you can't get good tightline drifts.
--> 4 ft. of 12 lb. mono
--> 2 ft of 10 lb. bi or tri-color sighter material
--> Tippet Ring
--> whatever length tippet you need


This rig turns over heavier nymphs very well - and it casts much easier than mono on shorter rods.

Another option is that you can just buy a shorty leader and tightline like that. I would love other member inputs on what I mentioned above. This rig works great for me. On smaller waters, I stick to the mono rig.

Last note: Do not be afraid to use split shot. Too many people who tightline get the idea that using split shot is bad. Often times, split shot on these rigs is the difference between them getting into the strike zone and not. Try and focus on your weight and how much you are ticking bottom or getting caught up. If I am on a medium-large body of water, I usually start with 2 sz 16-18 3mm bead nymphs with one run off the tag. If I'm not getting down, I add a 0.1g shot above my point fly (I love Loon Camo Drops). If I am ticking or getting snagged too much, I will swap my tag fly for a sz 18-22 2-2.5mm bead nymph.

Another effective setup for fishing during emergence is using a heavier/larger profile 3-3.5 mm bead point fly, and then running a wet fly on the tag and swinging at the end of the drift.

Sorry that was a lot of unrelated spew but I love this style of fishing!

 

[JeffK]

I have been following the European styles of nymphing since the early 90's when the Eastern European competitors took the world by storm with "Czech nymphing". Yes, on one level it is all basically the same (just like baseball is just throwing and catching and hitting), but refinements in tackle and techniques make it a lot more enjoyable and effective. Plus, hatches are getting fewer where I fish and I tend to be fishing dries less and nymphing more. Upping my nymphing game keeps me fishing effectively more of my fishing time.

 

[Jessed]

Could anyone point me to some info on how to run a setup like this on a standard 9' 5wt or 6 wt rod? I saw some guys mention above that they fish this way but with standard equiptment. I'd love a simple leader setup where i could give this a try on the same rods and reels i'm using to indicator nymph. Thanks I’d recommend

It will be a lot easier to start with a thicker leader setup as it’s easier to cast. Euro cast is a lot different than a traditional cast and is hard to get use to, most people i see just have some sort of lob technique… it sends the flies out but you have little control of location and how the flies land.
Id start with 6-7 feet of 12 pound maxima chameleon to 2’ of 1-2x indicator mono with a 2mm tippet ring attached to the end. From there you can add as much tippet as you need. NOTE: For learning any technique, it’s better to focus on quantity rather than quality at first . Go fish a stream with numbers rather than size of fish. More strikes = big boost getting over that learning curve as well as confidence.

 

[NetWork]

I have been experimenting with different butt sections for a monorig, of which each butt section is 30 feet long so that I can keep the fly line on the reel and the junction out of the guides. I use them for nymphing, streamers and dry flies (out to about 30 feet): 20 lb Maxima chameleon, 30 lb OPST laser line, 35 lb OPST oval laser line. They are more similar to each other than different, but there are differences. I find that the chameleon casts dry flies the best of the three, but it retains coils more than the two OPST lines. So, if I am likely to fish dries or dry droppers on a tight line, I usually use the Maxima. I like the high visibility of both the OPST lines, something that can be important in certain lighting conditions. The oval line is easier to feel in the stripping hand than the the two round lines, and I like it better in cold weather for this reason. But all fish well.

 

[Kyle]

i have been thinking about adding a euro rod to my arsenal but i have a few questions

1. why are euro rods 10'? for high sticking?

2. whats the difference in euro nympthing or nympthing with your regular fly rod?

3. when do you decide to use your euro rod instead of regular fly rod? river conditions?

i hope these are not stupid questions.

 

[Schaefer406]

i have been thinking about adding a euro rod to my arsenal but i have a few questions

1. why are euro rods 10'? for high sticking?

2. whats the difference in euro nympthing or nympthing with your regular fly rod?

3. when do you decide to use your euro rod instead of regular fly rod? river conditions?

i hope these are not stupid questions.

1) Euro rods are usually ~10 ft to allow for extra reach across or up the water. Due to the extra reach, you also will get a longer drift out of it (since the flies track to your rod tip). Think: You want to nymph a soft back eddy across from fast current - will this be easier to do on an 8.5ft rod or a 10-11ft rod if you are on the other side of the fast current?
- Some people don't agree with this one but I find it to be true - IMO it is harder to break off when using a longer rod due to the flex and the fighting butt section - I feel as if it protects your tippet from snapping on larger fish.

2) When you use a longer rod (10-11') in a lighter weight (I prefer 3-4wt) you have significantly more sensitivity for strike detection, being able to tell when you are at proper depth, and more. In addition to this, the longer rods cast mono rigs much better due to their more flexible and sensitive tip. Try putting a mono rig on an 8ft rod and then on a 10ft rod and cast them and you will see the difference in your accuracy and feel. Also tying in with the first question - You will lose drift length and the ability to reach across current. Another big factor is ergonomics, when using a longer rod, you don't have to hold your arm out, you can keep it comfortably at your side (this is how you are supposed to tightline nymph unless you need the reach) -people demolish their shoulders reaching nonstop.

3) I use my 10' 4wt for every river condition. I run a mono rig usually for my nymphing (unless I am on BIG water which I use the rig I commented above). Why? Because I am able to run just nymphs, nymphs with split shot, nymphs with a light indicator (small Oros or NZ Yarn). Best of all, if a hatch is happening and I want to fish dries, I have an SA Infinity WF4F line underneath my mono rig where I can easily just take off the mono rig and place on a traditional leader and boom, we are in business. I really want to emphasize that you can easily fish with an indicator on a tightline system - I do it every single time I go out. Sure, the casting isn't as glorious as other systems, but it works, it catches fish, and in the grand scheme, I would rather sacrifice some casting grace for the versatility I receive.



Other members - if I forgot anything please add on.

 

[bringthepain]

Thanks for the tips guys! I found some places to buy a 30ft standard mono rig all tied up already so i think i will grab one of those and keep it with my leaders so i can give this a shot when the time is right!

 

[Kyle]

1) Euro rods are usually ~10 ft to allow for extra reach across or up the water. Due to the extra reach, you also will get a longer drift out of it (since the flies track to your rod tip). Think: You want to nymph a soft back eddy across from fast current - will this be easier to do on an 8.5ft rod or a 10-11ft rod if you are on the other side of the fast current?
- Some people don't agree with this one but I find it to be true - IMO it is harder to break off when using a longer rod due to the flex and the fighting butt section - I feel as if it protects your tippet from snapping on larger fish.

2) When you use a longer rod (10-11') in a lighter weight (I prefer 3-4wt) you have significantly more sensitivity for strike detection, being able to tell when you are at proper depth, and more. In addition to this, the longer rods cast mono rigs much better due to their more flexible and sensitive tip. Try putting a mono rig on an 8ft rod and then on a 10ft rod and cast them and you will see the difference in your accuracy and feel. Also tying in with the first question - You will lose drift length and the ability to reach across current. Another big factor is ergonomics, when using a longer rod, you don't have to hold your arm out, you can keep it comfortably at your side (this is how you are supposed to tightline nymph unless you need the reach) -people demolish their shoulders reaching nonstop.

3) I use my 10' 4wt for every river condition. I run a mono rig usually for my nymphing (unless I am on BIG water which I use the rig I commented above). Why? Because I am able to run just nymphs, nymphs with split shot, nymphs with a light indicator (small Oros or NZ Yarn). Best of all, if a hatch is happening and I want to fish dries, I have an SA Infinity WF4F line underneath my mono rig where I can easily just take off the mono rig and place on a traditional leader and boom, we are in business. I really want to emphasize that you can easily fish with an indicator on a tightline system - I do it every single time I go out. Sure, the casting isn't as glorious as other systems, but it works, it catches fish, and in the grand scheme, I would rather sacrifice some casting grace for the versatility I receive.



Other members - if I forgot anything please add on.

thank you for the info. care to share your mono rig? i am use to just fly line with my leader and adding tippet to my nympths. im just trying to gather info on this here on the forum before i venture out into the world of youtube. this whole set up might be something i wanna use my christmas bonu on but i want to do my research first.

 

[NetWork]

1) Euro rods are usually ~10 ft to allow for extra reach across or up the water. Due to the extra reach, you also will get a longer drift out of it (since the flies track to your rod tip). Think: You want to nymph a soft back eddy across from fast current - will this be easier to do on an 8.5ft rod or a 10-11ft rod if you are on the other side of the fast current?
- Some people don't agree with this one but I find it to be true - IMO it is harder to break off when using a longer rod due to the flex and the fighting butt section - I feel as if it protects your tippet from snapping on larger fish.

2) When you use a longer rod (10-11') in a lighter weight (I prefer 3-4wt) you have significantly more sensitivity for strike detection, being able to tell when you are at proper depth, and more. In addition to this, the longer rods cast mono rigs much better due to their more flexible and sensitive tip. Try putting a mono rig on an 8ft rod and then on a 10ft rod and cast them and you will see the difference in your accuracy and feel. Also tying in with the first question - You will lose drift length and the ability to reach across current. Another big factor is ergonomics, when using a longer rod, you don't have to hold your arm out, you can keep it comfortably at your side (this is how you are supposed to tightline nymph unless you need the reach) -people demolish their shoulders reaching nonstop.

3) I use my 10' 4wt for every river condition. I run a mono rig usually for my nymphing (unless I am on BIG water which I use the rig I commented above). Why? Because I am able to run just nymphs, nymphs with split shot, nymphs with a light indicator (small Oros or NZ Yarn). Best of all, if a hatch is happening and I want to fish dries, I have an SA Infinity WF4F line underneath my mono rig where I can easily just take off the mono rig and place on a traditional leader and boom, we are in business. I really want to emphasize that you can easily fish with an indicator on a tightline system - I do it every single time I go out. Sure, the casting isn't as glorious as other systems, but it works, it catches fish, and in the grand scheme, I would rather sacrifice some casting grace for the versatility I receive.



Other members - if I forgot anything please add on.

Good thoughts. One thing I would add. I also have a WF4F line on my reel that I will use on occasion. However, I find that the monorig casts a dry fly, or a dry dropper, so well, that I rarely use the standard fly line. In fact, with the monorig and a dry fly, out to 30 feet or so, I can cast the dry fly and land it on the water without any of the tippet or leader landing on the water. The rig is tight to the dry fly and I can get a good drag free drift. This also work with a dropper underneath the dry.

 

[Schaefer406]

Good thoughts. One thing I would add. I also have a WF4F line on my reel that I will use on occasion. However, I find that the monorig casts a dry fly, or a dry dropper, so well, that I rarely use the standard fly line. In fact, with the monorig and a dry fly, out to 30 feet or so, I can cast the dry fly and land it on the water without any of the tippet or leader landing on the water. The rig is tight to the dry fly and I can get a good drag free drift. This also work with a dropper underneath the dry.

Totally agree! Another great rig for Dry Flies that I'm sure you know about is the Harvey Leader --> https://troutbitten.com/2019/07/21/dry-fly-fishing-the-george-harvey-leader-design/ I keep one of these in my pack as well. The "traditional" mono rig is awesome for dry dropper too - I love fishing this system for pocket water

 

[Nocktavius]

thank you for the info. care to share your mono rig? i am use to just fly line with my leader and adding tippet to my nympths. im just trying to gather info on this here on the forum before i venture out into the world of youtube. this whole set up might be something i wanna use my christmas bonu on but i want to do my research first.

The nice thing about the mono rig and tight lining in general is that most of the components are stupid cheap so your Christmas bonus should be relatively safe. Skies the limit on the rod (and longer specialized sticks will certainly make things easier, I’d go 10’9”-11’ 3 wt personally, never understood the 10’ 4 wt thing- it’s both a little too short and a little too heavy to be the right rod for the job). Buy the components for the standard mono rig from the links off of Dom’s website (troutbitten) and you’ll have enough stuff to make them for you and all your buddies for the next decade.

 

[Schaefer406]

thank you for the info. care to share your mono rig? i am use to just fly line with my leader and adding tippet to my nympths. im just trying to gather info on this here on the forum before i venture out into the world of youtube. this whole set up might be something i wanna use my christmas bonu on but i want to do my research first.

Here is what I use - also know that you can tie tons of mono rigs for cheap since the inputs to it are relatively inexpensive:

30' of 15 lb Maxima Chameleon (simply jus tie a clinch knot to the welded loop of your fly line)
--> Blood Knot
2' of 12 lb Maxima Chameleon
--> Blood Knot
2' of 10 lb Maxima HV (the neon green color)
--> Tippet Ring
16" 2X Rio Two Tone Tippet Material or other sighter material
--> Tippet Ring
Whatever length and size tippet you want (I usually stick with 4X and 5X - 6X is a pain in the a**)


Really you can just mess with the system and find one that works for you. There are hundreds of variations to it for you to try and experiment with!

 

[JeffK]

I've gone even simpler. 20' of Maxima Chameleon. I started out with 12 lbs, now use mostly 8 lbs./ Tippet ring/ 20" or so of Two Tone sighter material (length to include both colors)/ tippet ring/ tippet. Tippet length usually 4' to 5' depending how deep I am fishing.

Since I go through lots of tippet use high grade fluorocarbon for spinning. Good brands are Seaguar Invisx or Sunline FC Super Sniper in 4 lbs test. That's all I use 90% of the time. Since I do a lot of midge fishing in the winter with 22/24 nymphs I often add a foot or two of a good 6x fluorocarbon tippet at the end. Don't go to 7x. Currently I use Soldarini S-Power Elite Competition 6X. Keep it simple and play around until you find what works.

For fly line I use an old WF turned around using the running line side as the line. When I was dry fly fishing with my nymphing rod I used a 4 wt DT line. But now I carry two rods - one for nymphing and one for dry flies. Actually, a long rod is great for high sticking dries in pocket water. Can lift the line over some of the conflicting currents.

The knot between the leader and line has to be small and smooth since it will be going through the guides while playing a fish and you don't want it to hang up. I generally like loop-loop for most fishing, but that doesn't cut it for mono rigs. Have tried many things (nail knot, super glue knot, etc) but have settled on tying the tiniest loop possible on the line and tying the leader to the loop with a clinch knot. It's what I'm doing now and it is fine, but not sure what it is what I will be doing next year.

15 years ago I bought a 10' 3 wt first generation Greys Streamflex. I thought it was the greatest for nymphing and dry flies in pocket water. Was lighter than what I was using and the length was helpful. Over the years I tried many rods (including the Cabelas 11' nymphing rod - which was a heavy beast) and a couple of years ago got a 10 1/2' 3 wt Moonshine Epiphany. Much lighter than older rod and the extra 6" helps. Rods do keep improving. Since the rod I have now is a big improvement and makes nymphing more enjoyable I think about getting a more expensive nymphing rod, but haven't pulled the trigger. What I have works for me (although it has a little more wobble than I prefer) and don't like spending $500 or more for a rod. That said, I have only fished one rod that I thought was properly damped and that cost over $1000, so that is not happening. Most more expensive rods didn't seem worth it.

 

[Jessed]

My standard nymph leader is euro fly line micro looped 18ft of 4.5x Pierre sempe, pezon and Michel or Adams. To that I add a 1mm tippet ring and 7 feet of 5,6,7x.


Dry fly: standard 3wt floating fly line. 24 inches of 20pound maxima to 20” of 15 lb to 15”of 12 lb to 15” of 10lb ,12” of 8lb 12” 6lb, 12” 4lb . From there I attach a micro loop OR micro tippet ring and then add tippet until the leader is around 20 feet long

 

[poopdeck]

Fishing sounds so complicated anymore. When did watching line for little ticks become something new from Europe?

 

[Kyle]

The nice thing about the mono rig and tight lining in general is that most of the components are stupid cheap so your Christmas bonus should be relatively safe. Skies the limit on the rod (and longer specialized sticks will certainly make things easier, I’d go 10’9”-11’ 3 wt personally, never understood the 10’ 4 wt thing- it’s both a little too short and a little too heavy to be the right rod for the job). Buy the components for the standard mono rig from the links off of Dom’s website (troutbitten) and you’ll have enough stuff to make them for you and all your buddies for the next decade.

thanks for the reply. an 11' fly rod?! i have a hard time walking a 9' rod through the woods let alone casting. are people euro fishing mostly open water and easy to acess? i feel like i would be walking a surf casting pole along a small stream. maybe im missing something.