Off Topic - CA Wildfires

[Padraic]

I found website that has some good maps for getting an understanding of how extensive these fires have been.

http://map.sdsu.edu/

This one is good for getting the bird's eye view.
http://map.sdsu.edu/visualization.html

 

[tomgamber]

Thanks Pad,
My wife used to live in SD and was looking for a map tp get a better idea. Thanks

 

[pete41]

I guess they can expect their insurance rates to double as ours did after the bad hurricane years.Tough.Montana,Wyoming and Idaho had better get ready for another influx.

 

[tabasco_joe]

Did you see the pictures from space? Don't remember if it was from the shuttle of sat. The smoke plums went well across the pacific. I flew over a fire in Arizona a few years ago. I think it was largest or second largest on record. Went for miles. Took quite a while to fly across it.

 

At our fly club meeting, last night, we were discussing these terrible fires, after the meeting. Our "Prez", mentioned, that; "We'd better hurry and get more "New Member Packets" made up! In another couple of months we're going to need, more, that we have ready to go now!"
We surely were not laughing at the FIRES, obviously, but his comment DID bring a known response from the membership....... almost every year, when California has had a really bad fire season, within 6 months of the fires being put out, our club seems to get about 3 to 4 new members. All of them, seem to come from Central to Southern, California!?!
Harry, (our club's Prez), then "asked for a show of hands, from all our members that have moved here from California over the past so many years!?". We had 34, current members, (out of the 71 members in our club), raise their hands!

 

[tomgamber]

When I was doing TV news back in the early 90's we discovered a fire (on the way back from covering a smaller fire). There was a grassy hillside on a camas. There were three distinct circles burned into the hillside. They were from lightning and it was dry and the flames were cruising. This was in the third week of July, I think.

That fire eventually went out in mid October when the temps finall dropped. In all it burned 750,000 acres in those 3 months. No civilian was killed several structure were lost and the biggest loss was probably to wildlife. I remember several cougars in particular were found during cleanup. The lands and waters have all recovered since then and even the next spring everything was an emerald green with regrowth. But the reason no one died is that people don't build million dollar homes en masse in those areas of Idaho.

Not to belittle the tragedy of those dealing with fires in CA but you build on a hillside in the line of perennial 70 Santa Anna's that is covered with nothing but dry sage where they get less than 10 inches of rainfall in a year and houses or anything else you put there is going to burn down eventually. Just like those who build those houses on Malibu cliff sides only to have them erode with the hillside into the ocean. It doesn't make any sense. When I lived in Boise, we were in the midst of a seven year drought. People from California moving in thought it would be a neat idea to build a development on Eagle Island in the middle of the Boise River. They lobbied P&Z to get the variances and finally won. 4 years later we got a serious snow papck and in April it all came down the hill. They had the nerve to complain when their new homes got flooded. They even tried to sue the Army Corps for continuing to release water from the reservoir above town. Guess what, the reservoir was already full. Some people are just either stupid or extremely arrogant.

In the end its you and I who end up paying for this either thru gov't assistance or insurance premiums. I don't mean to sound cold but this something that I really despise. How freakin' selfish. If I can't get mine subsidence insurance from my insurance guy, how can they have these places insured.

Ok i'm done :-x :-D

 

[pete41]

Tom,I wanted to say everything you said and then some but being a Newby and an out of stater I figure I better go easy.However now I can say ,ditto.lol
It is stupid that they have these houses scattered all through their mini-wild sections.Group the houses,clear the fire belt for a mile around the housing and still have some nature preserves.Nope,can't do that ,they need the million dollar views.
Wait to they get the $50,000 insurance bills for their million dollar homes.Then they will demand action.

 

[TimMurphy]

Dear Tom,

But the weather there is just so beautiful, why would anyone want to live anywhere else?

Call me stupid but just because you have central A/C and central heat that doesn't mean that the area you are currently living in is truly suited for human habitation. There isn't enough naturally occuring water in SoCal to support 1/10 of it's present population.

Still, people keep running to there as well as all of the next best most wonderful places like there is no tomorrow.

I have friends in Florida who like Pete took a beating on their homes and homeowner's insurance.

I'm anxious to see what happens when the insurance companies start writing checks for $ 600,000 to cover the losses of a $ 1,000,000 mortgage holder.

It ain't gonna be purty.

To paraphrase the late Sam Kinneson, "You live in a freaking desert, move to where the water is!"

Regards,
Tim Murphy

 

Tom frankly, don't apologize because I know that I couldn't agree with you MORE, myself.
Sure, I feel SOMEWHAT sorry, for anyone that looses their home and belongings to any disaster.
But, like you mentioned in the Boise area and, those houses on the island.................. "what do you, expect??
Several years ago, here on the Oregon coast where I live, there was a group of "super intelligent, highly educated, couldn't tell them anything", doctors, lawyers and the like that of course, had "far more money than common sense".
Sooo, they decided to hire an equally intelligent group of contractors, to build a dozen of the most beautiful homes, ever seen or built, on the coast up until then.
"WHERE", did they build this "private and super expensive neighborhood"? Well, right down, on a sand spit, called "The Salishan Spit". NOTHING, but pure, loose, clean, beach sand. Not a bucket full of top soil, or, dirt of any kind, for miles.
Of course, it was AT sea level and a few home lots were even BELOW sea level. So, they drove in "secure pilings", so they claimed, but only 5 feet into.....................THE SAND. The "retaining wall to hold back the force of the Pacific Ocean, was made of "rip-rap" and about 8' high.
Well, to make a long story, longer................. the houses once completed, many moved into their new: "super vacation/some year around -4 bedroom-3 bath-triple garage-homes". That November, there was a storm, which we get plenty of every single year, all winter long. It wasn't even necessarily "a worse than average storm", just high winds, lots of rain and of course........ high tides and surf.
In LESS, that 36 hours, Salishan Spit was returned to it's natural, before construction, state of......."long, clean, drifting sand, beaches".
There was not a sign of a home, ever being built on the spit whatsoever. Even the "safety pilings" were washed out to sea!
And, as you also mentioned, happens................. our storm insurance rates went up about 12 % the following renewal date, as well as everyone else, that we spoke to, that lives within even a half mile of the surf!

 

[flyfishermanj]

Tom and Flybinder,

Agree 100%!!!! Add these people to the island house folks:

Those that live in the flood basin of any major river that have to go to the second floor to see the top of the levee!!!

Those that live at or below sea level along the coast during hurricane season! New Orleans really gets me going!!!! Fits in both of my previous statements. The thing I remember the most about my visit there the the TWO flights of stairs you had to CLIMB to see the Miss. River!!!

Trailer Parks in Oklahoma and northern Texas!!!!

JH

 

[Bruno]

Architecture and landscaping also play a huge role in these homes burning as well. I remember a picture from the Malibu fires 15 years ago. There was a housing development that burnt to the ground. There was one home standing. It belonged to an architect. He built the home and made if fire resistant. He built the home to fit into the environment.

Landscaping plays a huge role. Why would any one plant fuel next to there homes in the desert? .. I unfortunately have to visit LA LA Land a couple of time a year. These people are insane for many reasons. However they are trying to make the desert not a desert. They want there homes and landscaping to look like homes in the east. Green grass, trees and bushes. These are not native to the environment and are just basically fuel.

Building materials play a huge role as well. Metal / Tile roofs are a must. The same goes for the windows and soffit. Vinyl melts and burns.

They want it to look they way they want it not the way it is. Trying to change the land and the environment is impossible. I can not say that I feel sorry for any of them. They chose to build homes in a ridiculous manner in a ridiculous place.

 

[tomgamber]

Bruno wrote:


Landscaping plays a huge role. Why would any one plant fuel next to there homes in the desert? .. I unfortunately have to visit LA LA Land a couple of time a year. These people are insane for many reasons. However they are trying to make the desert not a desert. They want there homes and landscaping to look like homes in the east. Green grass, trees and bushes. These are not native to the environment and are just basically fuel.

Absolutely...they also seem to like to plant bushes like Junipers which are essentially gas cans with roots. They plant them right up against the houses. DUH!

 

[Acristickid]

Way worse to learn several fires are a result of arson!!! If they are caught they should have to clear brush for the rest of the lives in chains.

 

[Padraic]

Before my accident, I went down to Pascagula, MS to help with the cleanup of the Katrina damage. Pascagula has a large naval base that employs a large percentage of the town. It also has a large commercial fishing fleet. There are a lot of jobs that come out of that industry too.I guess you could say that the people who lived there should have known better than to live on the Gulf Coast where hurricanes blow through every now and again. Kansas would be much safer. Of course Kansas isn't such a good place to catch shrimp and build destroyers.

And of course there are hurricanes, and there are hurricanes. Most of the people there have been through a number of them. They are like snowstorms up here. They come, leave a big mess and in a day or two of hard work everything is back to normal. I am not planning to move out of PA just because we have winter weather, even if people die in traffic accidents caused by it.

Folks move to where the economic opportunities are. And they buy homes where they can afford the land. This isn't stupididty, it's neccessity. I live where I live because I got a job and moved here.

I heard a lot talk about how people shouldn't live in huricane zones before I went to Mississippi. IMHO that's the kind of thing you can say when you have no idea what people in that situation go through.

 

[tomgamber]

Padraic wrote:
Folks move to where the economic opportunities are. And they buy homes where they can afford the land. This isn't stupididty, it's neccessity. I live where I live because I got a job and moved here.

Pad, Is your multi million dollar house built in a sage field and made of flammable material. And did you have any trouble getting insurance for your home?

There is a lot of vacant real estate within commuting distance of both LA and SD. If its such an economic necessity, why don't they live in Compton or Chula Vista or Hey, Tijuana is close. That would save then some gas money. It must have been a great sacrifice to have to have built such a home in such an area.
Those people you saw in MS do HAVE to live there. I don't see how you can compare the two.

The only way you can compare the situations is if the people of New Orleans built their houses out of toilet paper, the people in Nebraska put huge windmills on their roofs and if you live here, you hose down the sidewalk when the temp dips below 20. Like I said before...if you know the danger you take steps to minimize it. Someone else mentioned that the only home to survive a fire previously was an architect's home. Why was that?

The example I gave of the people in Idaho who build their homes in the middle of a river (historically) didn't do it because they had to...they wanted and chose to.

Don't play the "have no idea what people in that situation go through." card unless you know that to be the case.

 

As I right away, pointed out in my own post on this topic..... "They were doctors, lawyers, etc. who basically didn't LIVE HERE and had absolutely NO reason, (economic or otherwise), to build homes ....at and below sea level.........on loose, shifting, beach sand.... only to use them for weekend/summer vacation getaways and possible, retirement homes. (Had they lasted more than 4 months, anyway!).

In fact, this "Heavenly Getaway At Salishan Spit", as it was advertised at the time, charged twice for building lots, compared to "on shore" land. But, THESE lots were.... "within a 1/4 mile of Salishan's 18 hole PGA quality golf course" and boasted to be "Quietly away, from the hub-bub ad noise of the normal tourist traffic of the mainland properties".

I, agree, that there are many instances where "homes are built, where economic demands warrant such structures". But, in the case of these multi-million dollar Calif.homes and those,like the Salishan disaster, I just can't see the "poor, poor, pitiful me" aspect being touted.

Susanne Summers, like the last fire, got burned to the ground AGAIN in the same place as her last house. Her "Quote' to the media?? "Oh, no one was hurt, thankfully, so we'll just "REBUILD again!" Well, maybe, if she's "smart" she'll have all the building materials soaked in gasoline, as they build, so she can AGAIN rebuild next time, but get the burned one, easier to cart away, when it burns next time!?

There's a brand new neighborhood, not far from my place that all the neighbors living there, are currently up in arms and ready to sue everyone from Gearhart's Mayor, to 'ol G. Bush, because all their brand new lawns keep getting torn to shreds from the "Clatsop Plains Elk Herd", traipsing through them 2 to 4 times, every day and night.

Seems, they built this "Nirvana Beach Hideaway" of homes right in the migratory path of the elk herd, who have been using it for God only,knows, how many hundreds of years!!?!
Part of the advertising, they used, when selling these lots was..... "Live Where You Can Practically Touch Nature At Its Doorstep!"

 

[Woolybugger]

Such a shame, but I knew this would happen. Poor distribution of wealth, the rich have mansions while the workers who maintain the mansions get paid ten bucks an hour with no benefits.

1- When the area is the driest in history, and the wind is blowing like crazy towards the rich folks homes and the temp is 100, 80% of the people living there think that it would be Gods' will to correct the unfairness of who has all the money!! I'll bet most are thinking "Burn, Baby, Burn"

2- I read several reports that say that "standard practice" of the firemen is to keep the fire going as long as possible. They will kick a burning ember across the street to keep the fire going. Why? more money for them!! overtime, hazard pay. All the dumb firemen want to live like Susan Somers and Arnold!!! Big houses and new cars cost money......... the firemen can't afford the nice things in life. When the fire is finally over, the firemen will drive their old cars to their inner-city houses or maybe a trailer. Arnold and Susan will drive their new Benzs and Hummers to the beautiful mansions they live in. Dinner time will be broiled lobster with fine wine for the rich, and dogs and beans for the working class!

Really, I'm surprised it took so long! I think they caught 5 arsons so far. The news will not talk about this........... they don't want any "copy cat" working class to start torching the rich.

Please don't hate me for my observations...... I'm a little like the infamous "unibomber", the great mathematician who removed himself from society and looks at what's going on in America.

Fly fish anyway, who cares about CA?

Scuze me, while I tie a fly.

 

[Maurice]

Pad,

I think the problem is two fold;

1, people move to an area out of necessity, I agree. But some areas should be off limits due to their level of risk. New Orleans is one of them. There is a difference between having a city in hurricane alley and having a city, built in a shallow lake in a hurricane zone. New Orleans common became exactly what it was engineered to be over 100 years ago. a sewer. Rebuilding New Orleans should be a completely independent venture, no federal dollars should be used below sea level. That is just stupid. Yet the whole US is expected to bear the burden.

2, the level of risk should be independent and not communal. If folks want to assume a level of risk beyond the noraml scope, let them, so long as it doesn't put others outside the risk area at risk. This includes insurance. Why should people in modest well managed living areas have to pay for the arrogance or stupidity of folks wishing to live on the edge of disaster?

But I agree wil Wollybugger or at least the end of his cynical rant. Who cares...is it really a surprise when you collect all the ingredients, mix them together and wait for the oven timer to ding, only to find a cake in side?