New Posting on Codorus creek

[Rockfish]

Decided to hit the Codorus tailwater section as it’s relatively close by to me in MD and much less crowded than the Gunpowder. Hiked downstream from the pull off along the railroad off Kraft Mill rd and passed by the little gravel ford the farmer uses to cross the stream. At that point the stream goes into a long bend to the right, so I started following the trail along it but then noticed a bunch of yellow posted signs about where that curve ends. I’ve also noticed some signs at the head of what I call the ditch that straight log jammed area upstream of the Brown rd. Not sure what to make of that since I can’t see any signage while scoping the road as I traveled along toward the sawmill. Anyone know what gives? I’ve heard about the section that was closed upstream of the mill where the cable crosses the stream but it seems like more is popping up downstream. I’m quite fond of the stream but it seems like it’s getting more and more fragmented and I’m considering writing it off as I’m very adverse about even inadvertently trespassing on private land. Frustrating

-Rock

 

[larkmark]

Sadly this creek is a victim of social media. Frequent postings of videos by a popular youtube channel ( who likes to present himself as a huge advocate for wild trout) resulting in popularising stream sections and then almost daily fishing pressure has upset landowners. There was also some very rude behavior by a flyfisherman in another instance in the upstream section you mentioned. I've really given up on the stream because of the constant fishing pressure and posting. It's very discouraging.

 

[Rockfish]

It is discouraging. Too many places are freezing fisherman out. It’s a crying shame but I can’t blame the landowners. If you’re standing out so much that they’re taking notice, you’re doing it wrong

 

[lycoflyfisher]

But he doesn't name the stream, Larkmark.... he just always says his local tailgaters and then also says he lives in York co.... lol not hard to figure out. In the kids defense he has put a lot of attention towards wild trout management, it does seem like he got used to promote a particular petition that has since ran its course. Personally I find it challenging to watch many of his videos more than a few mjnutes.

It's a shame the posting continues to increase, there is little we can do but share the importance of respecting private landowners, and perhaps local tu chapters or conservation groups can organize cleanups etc to improve the situation on their respective popular streams. The lack of respect shown to landowners imo is a result of a growing trend where society as a whole has devalued respect of others

 

[larkmark]

I stopped over there a few times this last winter. Weekdays there were cars parked at several.pulloffs. People just tire of seeing fishermen day in and day out traipsing through their properties and creating very muddy trails. With the help of our annoying internet wannabe fishing star they were shown where to go and what to do on a particular section through people's yards. It just gets to be too much. In my opinion it is less about litter and occasional rude people and more about overall overuse that causes a lot of posting.

 

[troutbert]

larkmark wrote:

In my opinion it is less about litter and occasional rude people and more about overall overuse that causes a lot of posting.

I agree. The typical explanation that flyfishers have always given is that posting is caused by litter and other rude behavior.

Obviously bad behavior can lead to posting.

But, supposing all anglers were very well behaved. We would still see the trend towards more and more land being posted.

This isn't a "woe is me, all is lost" statement.

It's more of a reality check. If we want a particular stretch of land to be open to the public forever, then something will have to be done to ensure that, i.e. an easement or purchase to make it public land.

That works. It's been done many places.

Wishing and hoping that the landowners will just keep it open will not work. Eventually there will be: public land and posted private land.

The category of private and open to the public still exists, but that is temporary. It is disappearing, and will eventually be gone altogether. That is largely true in the Poconos already.

 

[lycoflyfisher]

Well put, the lack of respect towards others in general and the feeling of entitlement is the bane of our society currently.

As far as land acquisition goes, that is better done at a local level through conservancy and other non profits than state agencies. It is much easier for those groups to mobilize funds on short notice than pfbc, dcnr, pgc etc.

 

[Mike]

For at least three reasons this “ trophy trout” special regs section would better be managed as a regular wild trout water under statewide regulations. First, the individuals who chase special reg areas would leave it alone to some degree, possibly to a welcomed extent. Second, the section is inappropriately managed as a trophy trout stream section. The former “selective harvest” regs with its 12 inch minium length limit matched the stream section’s productivity for “larger fish” perfectly. Third, substantially, and I do mean substantially, more harvest, would benefit the length distribution of the fish population in that section. Realistically, however, that would not happen as it doesn’t on the vast majority of Pa’s other wild trout waters and most anglers would leave the section alone, which could only benefit the landowner situation.

 

[Mike]

How did the Selective Harvest stream sections become Trophy Trout streams? Commissioners felt this was a way to simplify regs.

 

[troutbert]

lycoflyfisher wrote:
Well put, the lack of respect towards others in general and the feeling of entitlement is the bane of our society currently.

Was that written in response to my post?

If so, you may have misinterpreted what I wrote.

What I wrote had nothing to with those things.

 

[coyoterahn]

lycoflyfisher wrote:
Well put, the lack of respect towards others in general and the feeling of entitlement is the bane of our society currently.

As far as land acquisition goes, that is better done at a local level through conservancy and other non profits than state agencies. It is much easier for those groups to mobilize funds on short notice than pfbc, dcnr, pgc etc.

Lyco,
Your comment concerning land acquisition is well founded. As an example, in September 2020 I made a donation to the PFBC’s CAP program. 7 months later, they have yet to cash the check! Talk about slow mobilization of funds.

 

[ztroutman]

The posted signs are put up for hunting seasons. However, please take care of where you walk and don’t litter. The farmer above Kraft Mill Rd. (railroad tracks) where the wire is in place put it there because of people not following rules on where to park and walking through his property.

 

[Bamboozle]

coyoterahn wrote:
Your comment concerning land acquisition is well founded. As an example, in September 2020 I made a donation to the PFBC’s CAP program. 7 months later, they have yet to cash the check! Talk about slow mobilization of funds.

You may want to call your bank and the PFBC. I made my CAP donation in January and my check was cashed promptly. FWIW - My contact at the PFBC CAP Program was Lisa Cramer 717-705-7830. I'm not positive if this info is still current.

I am also a member of the Central Pa Conservancy. They are the group that purchased the old cress farms at the Letort. Unfortunately their (our) area of concern does NOT include the Codorus area, but there may be a group with a similar mission for Southern York County.

Regardless, the bottom line even WITH access is that it's not a bad idea to occasionally still knock on doors if only to say "hi" and thanks...!!

 

[CodorusTUTom]

Just wanted to clarify a couple of things...

None of the current postings on the Codorus are related to hunting. The two postings in Rockfish's original post weren't caused by fishermen either - they resulted from the theft of personal property from the landowners. The posting at the upper end of the 'ditch' (as Rockfish described, aka 'the tank') just prohibits parking there - you can still fish the property. The posting on the upper section, above the cable, was triggered by a senseless idiot who actually harassed the landowners small children - so fully justified. Everyone fishing that creek really needs to step up their behavior game - most do, but a select few are close to really screwing things up. And don't forget that the stream has NZ mudsnails now - be sure to clean and dry your gear thoroughly. PM me with any concerns - there's a good chance I can get you some accurate info.

 

[moon1284]

So it wasn't posted because the landowners grew tired of seeing fishermen on their property?

That seems like a totally normal reason to post your land. I know I fly off the handle when I look out of my window and see someone walking on the sidewalk in front of my house.

 

[coyoterahn]

Bamboozle wrote:
[
You may want to call your bank and the PFBC. I made my CAP donation in January and my check was cashed promptly. FWIW - My contact at the PFBC CAP Program was Lisa Cramer 717-705-7830. I'm not positive if this info is still current.

I am also a member of the Central Pa Conservancy. They are the group that purchased the old cress farms at the Letort. Unfortunately their (our) area of concern does NOT include the Codorus area, but there may be a group with a similar mission for Southern York County.

Regardless, the bottom line even WITH access is that it's not a bad idea to occasionally still knock on doors if only to say "hi" and thanks...!!

Bam, thanks for the contact info. Ill follow up with Lisa and see where that goes.

 

[Rockfish]

Just wanted to clarify a couple of things...

None of the current postings on the Codorus are related to hunting. The two postings in Rockfish's original post weren't caused by fishermen either - they resulted from the theft of personal property from the landowners. The posting at the upper end of the 'ditch' (as Rockfish described, aka 'the tank') just prohibits parking there - you can still fish the property. The posting on the upper section, above the cable, was triggered by a senseless idiot who actually harassed the landowners small children - so fully justified. Everyone fishing that creek really needs to step up their behavior game - most do, but a select few are close to really screwing things up. And don't forget that the stream has NZ mudsnails now - be sure to clean and dry your gear thoroughly. PM me with any concerns - there's a good chance I can get you some accurate info.

Thanks for the feedback Tom. I’ve always been a stickler about being respectful towards landowners and would be horrified to offend them. in fact, I typically carry a drawstring bag to collect trash when I fish because I find it offensive. I’ve never understood “outdoorsman” who feel no compunction about leaving their garbage. Heck, after encountering a dead kingfisher caught up in someone’s line snagged on a tree branch, I’ve begun carrying a section of paracord with a sinker on the end to toss up and pull down branches so I can remove it. you'd be surprised how many flies and lures I get in perfect condition too which is kind of nice. I’ve seen too many places posted after thoughtless behavior. Harassing the landowners kids? What is wrong with people?

On an aside, I encountered fish & game guys doing a shocking study sometime late this summer. Do you have any idea as to their results? I’ve searched been have been unable to find their results and am curious.

Thanks again,
Rock

 

[Bamboozle]

On an aside, I encountered fish & game guys doing a shocking study sometime late this summer. Do you have any idea as to their results? I’ve searched been have been unable to find their results and am curious.

Thanks again,
Rock

Not all stream surveys are published on line.

A call to the PFBC Fisheries Management Region 6 office should get you an answer as to the results of that survey.

 

[afishinado]

Not all any stream surveys are published on line.

A call to the PFBC Fisheries Management Region 6 office should get you an answer as to the results of that survey.

^ Fixed that for you.....

Biologist surveys have not been shared online from the PFBC site for quite a few years now. Check out how many recent surveys are listed for Management Area 6 below or pick any Management area.

Biologist Reports Area 6

www.fishandboat.com

Almost none added in the last 3 or 4 years in Area 6. The Commish has to do a lot better sharing info with the angling public since they fund these surveys in the first place and deserve to be able to access this info. The FBC is understaffed as it is and having to call the Region office and ask them for info that can and should be available online just adds to the problem of them being overworked, IMO.

 

[Bamboozle]

It's a pain in the butt, but I call and ask. The folks in fisheries management seem to be generally enthused that someone is interested in their work and have always been very forthcoming to me with a lot more information than is in those reports.

I've also been told by those same biologists that a lot of small surveys are done and were never published, but I don't know is that's a recent development or was always the case.

Obviously if Mike chimes in we'll know for sure.