New LLBean store
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gfen
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They have regular events during weekends at their ODS, but the fly tying class is a 26 week long course where they provide all materials, as well as one of their employees, to teach it all.
They've also done other events, including introduction to casting on the weekends, and had a speaker come in and discuss fishing the salmon river. I neglected to do any of those, but I might attend more of what they offer.
I have to say, I really like the knowleldge they offer, I just wish there was more I could buy through their store to support their efforts.
They've also done other events, including introduction to casting on the weekends, and had a speaker come in and discuss fishing the salmon river. I neglected to do any of those, but I might attend more of what they offer.
I have to say, I really like the knowleldge they offer, I just wish there was more I could buy through their store to support their efforts.
David
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jaybo41 wrote:
They have the same Outdoor Discovery Programs advertised for the Pittsburgh Store, but not sure if they offer a tying class.
Tom said something about being part of the program starting in spring. We didn't get into depth about it, so I don't know if that means he'll join in the spring or if the program begins in the spring. I also don't know if it includes fly tying or not.
They have the same Outdoor Discovery Programs advertised for the Pittsburgh Store, but not sure if they offer a tying class.
Tom said something about being part of the program starting in spring. We didn't get into depth about it, so I don't know if that means he'll join in the spring or if the program begins in the spring. I also don't know if it includes fly tying or not.
David
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[quote:
You have to sell a lot of fly tying materials to make money.
Think of the overhead - each "package" - 1/2 to 3/4 is cost, then there is labor, and considering that each package is usually a couple bucks, most fly shops make little money off tying.
Take for instance Jonas, he only carries the basics, because he doesn't profit (it probably doesn't hurt that his customers buy flies)
However, Hille's has a huge tying selection because customers there tie there own.
quote]
A couple of things that come into play here...My first observations and disappointment are based on having been to the LL Bean home store many times and using that as my reference point. It was large and very complete with fly tying materials, countless accessories, variety of brands, and well used visual merchandising space.
Second, I don't know Jonas or his situation, but having been a head of a training team and a director of HR for retail, I can say that Bean's use of space and product selection left much to be desired. In a store of that space, it should be a destination store, which means it should have the variety of items to generate sufficient traffic. Limited product selection doesn't warrant frequent customer return visits at a mall location. Also, while tying materials may not have the best margin, they will increase the ave $ per transaction and overall profitability plus add capital. It is considered an intermediate item that will also lead to the sale of higher margin% products such as tying accessories. There was wasted space in the store from a visual merchadising aspect that could easily display tying material without detracting from thier proprietary items. This would, then, help increase their top line sale..which is the best way to increase the bottom line. Leases are done by sq foot...every space is valuable. Even if materials adds only a few % increase, I don't know many stores these days that would reject a 2% increase in sales.
Carrying tying materials would help increase $ per square foot, increase foot traffic, increase $per average sale, encourage sales of larger items, and lastly add margin $.
One company I worked for was based soley on the bottom line, not top line sales. It generated 60% of it's bottom line from only 20 products. 80% of it's bottom line was from the top 200 products. It carried about 1000 more products in the stores which accounted for remaining 20%...However, the business was based (as most are) by getting people into the store. If we had only carried those top 20 or 200 items and not some of those lower magin items, we would not have generated the close to the traffic or sales that we did.
I am guessing that Jonas is a small store and does not have the capital to tie up in the lower margin items...that is fine. I know that Bean does have the capital and could do a better job with the location they selected at Ross Park Mall.
You have to sell a lot of fly tying materials to make money.
Think of the overhead - each "package" - 1/2 to 3/4 is cost, then there is labor, and considering that each package is usually a couple bucks, most fly shops make little money off tying.
Take for instance Jonas, he only carries the basics, because he doesn't profit (it probably doesn't hurt that his customers buy flies)
However, Hille's has a huge tying selection because customers there tie there own.
quote]
A couple of things that come into play here...My first observations and disappointment are based on having been to the LL Bean home store many times and using that as my reference point. It was large and very complete with fly tying materials, countless accessories, variety of brands, and well used visual merchandising space.
Second, I don't know Jonas or his situation, but having been a head of a training team and a director of HR for retail, I can say that Bean's use of space and product selection left much to be desired. In a store of that space, it should be a destination store, which means it should have the variety of items to generate sufficient traffic. Limited product selection doesn't warrant frequent customer return visits at a mall location. Also, while tying materials may not have the best margin, they will increase the ave $ per transaction and overall profitability plus add capital. It is considered an intermediate item that will also lead to the sale of higher margin% products such as tying accessories. There was wasted space in the store from a visual merchadising aspect that could easily display tying material without detracting from thier proprietary items. This would, then, help increase their top line sale..which is the best way to increase the bottom line. Leases are done by sq foot...every space is valuable. Even if materials adds only a few % increase, I don't know many stores these days that would reject a 2% increase in sales.
Carrying tying materials would help increase $ per square foot, increase foot traffic, increase $per average sale, encourage sales of larger items, and lastly add margin $.
One company I worked for was based soley on the bottom line, not top line sales. It generated 60% of it's bottom line from only 20 products. 80% of it's bottom line was from the top 200 products. It carried about 1000 more products in the stores which accounted for remaining 20%...However, the business was based (as most are) by getting people into the store. If we had only carried those top 20 or 200 items and not some of those lower magin items, we would not have generated the close to the traffic or sales that we did.
I am guessing that Jonas is a small store and does not have the capital to tie up in the lower margin items...that is fine. I know that Bean does have the capital and could do a better job with the location they selected at Ross Park Mall.
dryflyguy
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With the price of hackle now - a #1 grade neck selling for close to $100 - I would think that it would be a money maker for anyone
Heritage-Angler
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Guys - I'm on your side here, and I'm as frustrated as we all are with the lack of places to find good quality tying and fishing gear.
Unfortunately, the truth hurts. How many of those grade 1 necks do you think they'd sell? Do you think you'd see shoppers with cartloads of $100 necks waiting in line to purchase them? Doubtful. Do you see shoppers with hundreds of dollars of clothing and shoes in their carts? See this every day, and not just Christmas shoppers - all year long.
You make the call. Their logic is inescapeable, but that doesn't mean we have to like it!
FWIW - The Bean's ODS program starts around Memorial Day, and runs until the middle of October. The tying classes are not part of ODS, but are put on by the store to compliment the ODS program.
David
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I understand where the money comes from for Bean. It is without doubt thier clothes. I am not disputing that. They have 1.5 floors devoted to clothing. But there must be some draw value / profitability in the FF department or it wouldn't be inluded in the floor plan.
I am talking about wasted space within the fly fishing department at Ross Park that they could utilize much better for marketing to FF customers and creating incremental business. I wouldn't expect tying material, or the whole fly fishing department for that matter, to be thier driving force, but successful "selling" is about doing all the small things right. Create that incremental business in each department through product selection, visual merchandising, proper hiring, customer service, sales training, coaching, counseling, etc., to create those small increased that will add up. That is how to drive the business rather than letting the business happen.
I like Bean and have / will continue to shop there, but their logic can certainly be improved upon...Bean is relatively new to the mall store concept. I am certain they would admit that there are growing pains and they will continue to evolve based on sales results and changing markets, as any successful retailer does.
I cannot say that I have worked with vendors in the fly tying industry to know the full issues and margins, but I can say with International Angler, Hoeys fly shop, Sportsman's Warehouse, ****s, etc. all withing a 15 minutes from the store, they left me with a lot to be desired at this location by the lack of selection.
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David wrote: “One company I worked for was based solely on the bottom line, not top line sales. It generated 60% of its bottom line from only 20 products. 80% of its bottom line was from the top 200 products. It carried about 1000 more products in the stores which accounted for remaining 20%...However, the business was based (as most are) by getting people into the store. If we had only carried those top 20 or 200 items and not some of those lower margin items, we would not have generated the close to the traffic or sales that we did.”
True enough, carrying a wide selection of niche and lower margin or volume items is necessary to build traffic, which is the key to success for a retailer. I live close to the Orvis owned store in Downingtown and I stop in quite frequently to pick up a FF doodad or some fly tying materials since it’s so close to home. While their selection of FF and tying stuff is fair at best, I would seldom stop in the store if they didn’t handle them. Sometimes, when browsing in the other parts of the store, you never know when a tweed shooting jacket with suede elbow patches and elk horn buttons may catch your eye.
Another point, the number of fly tying items / materials are nearly endless, and it would be impossible to stock even most of them. I do disagree that most fly tying items are low margin, low volume maybe. Many of the common materials found in a fly shop are sold in small individual packages for $3 or $4 a piece, but are available for a nickel a mile or ten cents per thousand at your local craft store. With that being said, I try to buy as much as possible from a local fly shop, within reason, just to keep them in business. The thing that makes fly tying materials so unprofitable is that a fly shop has to stock a thousand different items in a couple dozen sizes and colors to sell a few dollars worth of merchandise.
With the downturn in the economy, Internet sales, and the proliferation of big box sporting retailers in PA and everywhere else, a lot of the smaller fly shops will disappear I’m afraid. I try to spread my FF dollars around, but that may be too little, too late to help the small guys.
I have had good experience with LL Bean’s products and service. I look forward to the LL Bean store opening at Great Valley / Devon in Chester County. Hopefully they will handle a good selection of FF stuff.
True enough, carrying a wide selection of niche and lower margin or volume items is necessary to build traffic, which is the key to success for a retailer. I live close to the Orvis owned store in Downingtown and I stop in quite frequently to pick up a FF doodad or some fly tying materials since it’s so close to home. While their selection of FF and tying stuff is fair at best, I would seldom stop in the store if they didn’t handle them. Sometimes, when browsing in the other parts of the store, you never know when a tweed shooting jacket with suede elbow patches and elk horn buttons may catch your eye.
Another point, the number of fly tying items / materials are nearly endless, and it would be impossible to stock even most of them. I do disagree that most fly tying items are low margin, low volume maybe. Many of the common materials found in a fly shop are sold in small individual packages for $3 or $4 a piece, but are available for a nickel a mile or ten cents per thousand at your local craft store. With that being said, I try to buy as much as possible from a local fly shop, within reason, just to keep them in business. The thing that makes fly tying materials so unprofitable is that a fly shop has to stock a thousand different items in a couple dozen sizes and colors to sell a few dollars worth of merchandise.
With the downturn in the economy, Internet sales, and the proliferation of big box sporting retailers in PA and everywhere else, a lot of the smaller fly shops will disappear I’m afraid. I try to spread my FF dollars around, but that may be too little, too late to help the small guys.
I have had good experience with LL Bean’s products and service. I look forward to the LL Bean store opening at Great Valley / Devon in Chester County. Hopefully they will handle a good selection of FF stuff.
