Native brook streams

[wangdb]

I'm finding this thread really insightful. I live in the DC suburbs and have just started to become aware of the treasure that is PA coldwater. For me, Fulton, Adams, Franklin, Cumberland and York counties are the most accessible. I'm overwhelmed by the possibilities, it seems that I could spend the next 20 years exploring just those five counties.

I have a few clarifying questions:

1. I grew up in suburban California, so this will be naive. How do you go about asking for access to private land? Never done it, kind of intimidated. Is it common for land owners to get this kind of request? From the PFBC maps, there's a lot of naturally reproducing trout water/class A trout water on land with 0% public access.

2. Swattie - do you mind clarifying your point #5, for SCPA? Are there some typical kinds of features that one should look for when trying to identify waters of interest? Would it be springs or geological information like limestone? Are there key indicators for cold water?

Thanks,
Dongbo

 

[sarce]

Hi Dongbo,

I'm sure Swattie will help you out but just wanted to jump in as a fellow DC suburb trout nut. You don't even have to go to PA for good trout fishing, MD has plenty. Check out Baltimore County to your NE and the Gunpowder Falls and most tributaries. Most are just OK but some are quite good, as is the Gunpowder itself. If you head NW there are great streams on the mountain in Frederick County. Fishing Creek and Big Hunting to name two of the more popular ones. Shoot me a PM if you want more info.

I happen to be working on an instructional blog post for a friend's site at the moment which will go over tips on finding cold trout streams in great detail. I'll try to remember to post a link here when it is complete (may be a few weeks).

 

[Swattie87]

Db -

1. It takes a lot of research to figure out who owns private land, not all of which can be conveniently found online. Fortunately, there’s a ton of streams on publicly owned land in PA. I’d concentrate your small stream efforts there. Nearly all of my small stream fishing is on public land…I still haven’t run out of new places to try.

2. Limestone is tough to identify from just looking at a map. You can find specific maps of areas underlain by limestone online though, and cross reference those with a normal topographic map to get ideas. Once you understand where the limestone is in PA, you can get a good idea where limestone streams are likely.

Nearly all streams in PA (outside of a handful of big limestoners or tailwaters) begin to get too warm for wild Trout once they reach a certain size…somewhere between 25 and 50 feet across is a general guideline probably. So on maps, you’re generally looking for smaller watersheds before the stream gets too big. Watersheds that are forested will help keep the water colder longer than ones that are more exposed to the sun.

 

[troutbert]

For fishing forested freestone streams (which hold brookies or browns or both), I recommend the following:

Get a paper map of PA, either the PennDot highway map, or the state map from DCNR.

Both of these have the public lands (state forests, state parks, state gamelands, Allegheny National Forest, Delaware Water Gap National Recreation Area) color coded.

Go fishing THERE. In those public lands. The good forested freestone wild trout fishing is in those places.

There is good forested freestoner wild trout fishing on private land also, but much of that land is posted. And there isn't any reliable way to know if it's posted or not.

And in some cases even when the land is not posted, there is no parking available, or you start fishing and the landowner tells you to leave, sometimes in an unpleasant way. And some landowners are OK with you fishing every day, except Sundays. You get the picture.

Especially when you are starting out, figure out where the large public lands are, and go fish the streams there.

Then over time you will probably get to know of some private land that you can fish on. You'll hear about it from other members of the FFF (forested freestoner flyfishers) cult.

 

[afishinado]

wangdb wrote:
I'm finding this thread really insightful. I live in the DC suburbs and have just started to become aware of the treasure that is PA coldwater. For me, Fulton, Adams, Franklin, Cumberland and York counties are the most accessible. I'm overwhelmed by the possibilities, it seems that I could spend the next 20 years exploring just those five counties.

I have a few clarifying questions:

1. I grew up in suburban California, so this will be naive. How do you go about asking for access to private land? Never done it, kind of intimidated. Is it common for land owners to get this kind of request? From the PFBC maps, there's a lot of naturally reproducing trout water/class A trout water on land with 0% public access.

2. Swattie - do you mind clarifying your point #5, for SCPA? Are there some typical kinds of features that one should look for when trying to identify waters of interest? Would it be springs or geological information like limestone? Are there key indicators for cold water?

Thanks,
Dongbo

Here is a copy of some info I posted on the previous page:

My computer, phone and GPS have replaced all my books and maps for the most part. I can find a location anywhere in the world on an e-map without having to actually physically have the correct map to find the spot I'm looking for at the time. Plus I can view that spot in various street map formats, a topo map, satellite view or street view (360* close-up pic).

From the PFBC site, the "County Guide" map for general fishing and the "Trout Stream Map" for trout are the main map sources I use to find places to fish. After picking out a potential fishing spot I further search out these places on Google Maps which is fantastic. Google maps also shows public lands and parks to assure access to many fishing spots. I can use satellite views to check out the streams themselves and have even picked out riffles, runs and pools for fishing spots from the satellite views.

I use Google "street view" all the time which allows you to virtually drive down the road and check things out. I've "driven" past spots and found places to pull off and park, different signs along the road and checked to see if the land is posted all while sitting at my fishing desk.

When I've picked a spot to explore on Google maps, I will put a pin on it with and it will automatically be available to me on my phone. I can use the driving directions feature on my phone and drive to that exact spot pinned on the map.

After I actually find a good new fishing spot, I will pin it on my master fishing map giving me another place to fish at some future date.


Here is a link to the Trout Map from the PFBC site:

http://pfbc.maps.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=65a89f6592234019bdc5f095eaf5c6ac

Nearly all the trout streams in PA are listed on the map.

No need to study geology or water chemistry to find fish.

In addition, all State, Forests, State Parks, State Gamelands and County Parks and their borders are shown on the map. You can shift views from several types of street maps, a topo map as well as see an actual picture of stream and terrain in a satellite map.

I also suggest you pick streams that run through public lands to assure access. You often will find privately owned land that is open to the public on your search.

In addition, you can locate the same area on Google maps and have your phone give you turn-by-turn directions to the spot you choose.

God luck with your search.

 

[wangdb]

So I gather the "Natural Reproduction Trout Streams" display on the PFBC map is pretty inclusive and accurate? And the reaches that are stocked trout water that do not overlap with Natural Reproduction Trout Streams are usually too warm to support trout year round?

 

[Dave_W]

wangdb wrote:
So I gather the "Natural Reproduction Trout Streams" display on the PFBC map is pretty inclusive and accurate? And the reaches that are stocked trout water that do not overlap with Natural Reproduction Trout Streams are usually too warm to support trout year round?

Not necessarily.

The Nat Repro List covers streams that have been documented to have wild trout. This does not mean there are fishable populations - just that a previous survey found at least one adult and one juvenile. Most of the stocked streams in PA are also on the NR list - the tricky thing is that stocked streams are listed by county where they're stocked whereas the NR list describes the county where the mouth of the stream is located, not necessarily where they found the wild trout.

So, for example, stream X may be listed as stocked in Adams County but appears on the NR list in Franklin County (because that is where the mouth is located) even though the wild fish were found in Adams and it is also in Adams where it is stocked.

The NR list is a good resource for identifying waters that are worth exploring for wild trout, but it doesn't mean that there are a lot of fish there.

 

[afishinado]

wangdb wrote:
So I gather the "Natural Reproduction Trout Streams" display on the PFBC map is pretty inclusive and accurate? And the reaches that are stocked trout water that do not overlap with Natural Reproduction Trout Streams are usually too warm to support trout year round?

Yes, the info on the Trout Stream Map is pretty accurate and inclusive, and it's being updated all the time. No doubt things change and some of the survey info is dated as populations of trout change, but it's the map is a great starting point for your search. Besides, most of us on here believe trout populations, at least brown trout, are increasing in PA streams; so most changes would be positive! If you are searching for brook trout exclusively, you can check out the lists of streams and narrow your search even further.

Again, I would pick out several streams in a certain area to explore for the day. Maybe pick one at least one that's a Class A, which is most likely to have a decent trout population and explore. Also, as mentioned in an earlier post, it's best to select at least some stream sections that run through public land to assure access. All these public lands are shown prominently on the Trout Stream Map.

Again below is the link to the PFBC Trout Stream Map. I cut and past the definitions of each type of stream displayed on the map.

Good luck on your adventure!

http://pfbc.maps.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=65a89f6592234019bdc5f095eaf5c6ac

Definitions:

Keystone Select Stocked - stocked with larger trout

Special Regulation - under a fishing special regulation

Class A - support a population of wild trout of size /abundance to support a long-term and rewarding sport fishery.

Stocked Trout - portions open to public fishing and may be stocked with trout

Wilderness - Wilderness Trout Designation as a fishing experience in a remote, natural and unspoiled environment

Natural Reproduction - support naturally reproducing populations of trout but may also be stocked

 

[Wild_Trouter]

Why not get a copy of Trout Unlimited's Guide to Pennsylvania Limestone Streams? A ton of work went into that book and contains a voluminous amount of very helpful information. See Amazon link below- it's worth every penny.

https://www.amazon.com/Trout-Unlimited-Pennsylvania-Limestone-Streams/dp/0811729443

 

[salmonoid]

HopBack wrote:

Many of the streams run through some game lands so I'm now wondering, do I need to wear something orange so I don't get accidentally shot? I would think a wild fish would see bright orange before I even see the water so that would suck!

Its a good idea to wear at least an orange hat on gamelands from September until March. I wouldn't even bother going during rifle deer season (first Monday after thanksgiving and then the 2 weeks following). No, you are not likely to get shot by a hunter but ricochets do happen, especially with a rifle.

Or just go on a Sunday since we have not Sunday hunting in PA.

I try to avoid SGL during hunting season, not because I'm concerned about getting shot, but out of deference to those trying to engage in hunting. I'll make some exceptions, say after Christmas when far less people are out hunting and my presence won't rattle as much wildlife (or hunters). Other lands, I view as more equal opportunity, in terms of access (State Forest, or private open lands).

 

[Vaughn]

salmonoid wrote:

I try to avoid SGL during hunting season, not because I'm concerned about getting shot, but out of deference to those trying to engage in hunting. I'll make some exceptions, say after Christmas when far less people are out hunting and my presence won't rattle as much wildlife (or hunters). Other lands, I view as more equal opportunity, in terms of access (State Forest, or private open lands).

^this. My way of thinking is that there are more public fishing locations than public hunting locations.

 

[Swattie87]

Went 0-2 today with two K’s. Tried two new BESF streams...Both ended up being rhodo fortresses. It’s rhodo more often than not there and in Rothrock SF it seems.

Busted my butt for 4 Brookies, and one Brown between the two of them. Flows were good, and I think they both have strong populations of fish (both are Class A List streams) but they both get an F on the fun to fish scale. Can scratch those of the list.....swwwwing and a miss. Had my eye on a third but after it taking 45 minutes to walk a 1/4 mile back to my vehicle after punting on the second one I waived the white flag and conceded victory to the rhodo today. I had been on a hot streak over the last month so it was due time to come back down to Earth.