P
PennypackFlyer
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Please remove JackM's post #7. and reprimand him for his lack of professionalism.
Please remove JackM's post #7. and reprimand him for his lack of professionalism.
sandfly
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what he said ^^^
wildtrout2
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Maybe that question was alcohol induced?
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rrt
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Aw, gee, back to the topic.
Those are really lovely trout from any stream, especially from one the size of Slate Run. It almost makes me want to drive up there to fish for a day.
Question: Do you think the big browns are ones that are stocked in "the stretch" on Pine Creek and work up Slate, or do you think they are wild trout? I think that would be interesting to know.
No matter; these fish help to show how special Slate Run really is.
Those are really lovely trout from any stream, especially from one the size of Slate Run. It almost makes me want to drive up there to fish for a day.
Question: Do you think the big browns are ones that are stocked in "the stretch" on Pine Creek and work up Slate, or do you think they are wild trout? I think that would be interesting to know.
No matter; these fish help to show how special Slate Run really is.
sandfly
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stockies run up slate all the time when pine stats to get to warm
pcray1231
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Of those pics, the "slate hog" in #6, 7, 8 is the only one that has any chance of being a stocked holdover. The rest are 100% wild.
I think that one is wild too, though, I'm just not 100% sure of it.
I think that one is wild too, though, I'm just not 100% sure of it.
HopBack
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Big fish are always tough but the coloration is consistent with the other wild fish caught in slate. I can also clearly see the eye spot on the "slate hog", so there is not doubt in my mind.
Also this is Klingy, the man knows his fish ;-)
pcray1231
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I didn't see the eye spot or any red really. Pictures aren't always perfect, and it doesn't help that it's upside down!
But, overall coloration suggests it's at the very least been in the stream a while, and location and perfect fins suggest wild. As you said, it's tough on larger fish as the reds and some of the more classic "wild" markers tend to fade as they become primarily piscavores.
My point was that I was 100% sure on the others and like 90% sure on that one, hehe. Not at all suggesting it is of stocked origins. They all look wild to me.
But, overall coloration suggests it's at the very least been in the stream a while, and location and perfect fins suggest wild. As you said, it's tough on larger fish as the reds and some of the more classic "wild" markers tend to fade as they become primarily piscavores.
My point was that I was 100% sure on the others and like 90% sure on that one, hehe. Not at all suggesting it is of stocked origins. They all look wild to me.
JackM
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wildtrout2 wrote:
Maybe that question was alcohol induced?
It's an old Carlin joke used as a way of commenting on the various orientations of the OP pictures. I laughed anyhow.
DaveS
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Really nice thread and great fish. Congrats.
I agree with stockies moving into Slate from Pine. I doubt many get past Manor falls, unless it has changed a lot since I was there last.
I agree with stockies moving into Slate from Pine. I doubt many get past Manor falls, unless it has changed a lot since I was there last.
klingy
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For those familiar with the strea, all of these fish were from above 7-mile.
Prospector
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Hopback and PCRAY (and anyone else who is knowledgeable)
What clues do you use to tell wild vs stocked? Due to where I live and where most of my fishing is done, about 85% of the browns I catch are stocked. Most of the obvious wild browns I catch are generally 7” or smaller. So that leaves about 8-10 fish each year to evaluate wild vs stocked.
I do look for perfect fins.
I also look for white fin bottoms (is this a good indicator? It seems like this does not hold true on larger fish so I conclude stocked on those with no white)
I look for red spots aligned perfectly on the lateral line and possibly a smattering above and below toward the rear of the fish. (If spots are orange or if red spots are more random or if some black spots aren’t round, I conclude stocked).
Im no expert because I don’t see enough and never cared enough (until last season) to even try assessing. I suspect your more trained eye with see other nuances.
What do you think?
What clues do you use to tell wild vs stocked? Due to where I live and where most of my fishing is done, about 85% of the browns I catch are stocked. Most of the obvious wild browns I catch are generally 7” or smaller. So that leaves about 8-10 fish each year to evaluate wild vs stocked.
I do look for perfect fins.
I also look for white fin bottoms (is this a good indicator? It seems like this does not hold true on larger fish so I conclude stocked on those with no white)
I look for red spots aligned perfectly on the lateral line and possibly a smattering above and below toward the rear of the fish. (If spots are orange or if red spots are more random or if some black spots aren’t round, I conclude stocked).
Im no expert because I don’t see enough and never cared enough (until last season) to even try assessing. I suspect your more trained eye with see other nuances.
What do you think?
L
lycoflyfisher
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Black/brown eyespot is one of the strongest indicators. With experience certain spot patterns are typically not present in wild fish. Fin conditions come into play as noted but may not be a good indicator for holdover fish.
pcray1231
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Blue eye spot - In my experience NEVER present on stocked fish. Usually present on wild fish. So if it has it, it's wild. If it doesn't, you can't be 100% sure. From my understanding this forms from diet very early in a trout's life, just after hatching. But, this spot sometimes doesn't show up great on camera, unfortunately. Reflective things are funny, depends on the angle.
Red - spots, fringe on the adipose. We're not talking orange. We're talking red. And it's NOT a reliable indicator as it's only usually present on wild fish and usually not on stocked ones (unless fed a special diet by a co-op or something). But it's diet based. And older browns can become mainly piscavores and often lose the red, while stocked ones can start feeding on a bunch of shrimp or something and gain it, though usually if it starts later in life it seems not to be spots but more fin fringes and the like.
Black spot patterns - Not reliable either. But this is pure genetics. The PAFBC's modern stocked brown trout tends to have squarish black spots, and lots of them, right on down through the lateral line. Wild stocks vary widely owing from different periods in which the wild population was "seeded". But if sparsely spotted it's probably wild. A common "wild" look is denser round spots down to the lateral line on the front of the fish, angling up and only on the back in the rear. There are streams, though, where the black spot pattern on wild fish is very similar to the PAFBC's stock.
Fins - Yeah yeah, stocked fish often have beat up fins. But, but, fins do regrow, albeit slowly. So a long time holdover, or a fingerling stocker, can have good fins. Also, conditions in co-op hatcheries vary widely, and some are better than others. Also, older wild fish start to get beat up after a while in some locations, as like in humans, growth/regeneration decreases with age but "life experience" increases, lol. So this is another non-reliable one, but a decent general rule of thumb one.
Location - Should there be wild fish here? Should there be stocked fish here? Not 100% reliable either. Fish move. And some places should have both or neither!
Overall coloration - least reliable. We're talking about that "butter" color, as well as any vertical barring. Purely diet based, and changes quickly with a change in diet (as in a few months, based on my observations). Wild fish can be pale and stocked ones can color up. But, color is the first impression on viewing a fish and it's probably 70% accurate.
Most of the above lead to a pretty good conclusion most of the time. i.e. none of them alone is 100% reliable. But if the vast majority of the markers are one way or the other, then you can be pretty comfortable saying one way or the other. If you've got 6 markers of wild that are 80% accurate each, and 0 of stocked. Yeah, it's wild.
Red - spots, fringe on the adipose. We're not talking orange. We're talking red. And it's NOT a reliable indicator as it's only usually present on wild fish and usually not on stocked ones (unless fed a special diet by a co-op or something). But it's diet based. And older browns can become mainly piscavores and often lose the red, while stocked ones can start feeding on a bunch of shrimp or something and gain it, though usually if it starts later in life it seems not to be spots but more fin fringes and the like.
Black spot patterns - Not reliable either. But this is pure genetics. The PAFBC's modern stocked brown trout tends to have squarish black spots, and lots of them, right on down through the lateral line. Wild stocks vary widely owing from different periods in which the wild population was "seeded". But if sparsely spotted it's probably wild. A common "wild" look is denser round spots down to the lateral line on the front of the fish, angling up and only on the back in the rear. There are streams, though, where the black spot pattern on wild fish is very similar to the PAFBC's stock.
Fins - Yeah yeah, stocked fish often have beat up fins. But, but, fins do regrow, albeit slowly. So a long time holdover, or a fingerling stocker, can have good fins. Also, conditions in co-op hatcheries vary widely, and some are better than others. Also, older wild fish start to get beat up after a while in some locations, as like in humans, growth/regeneration decreases with age but "life experience" increases, lol. So this is another non-reliable one, but a decent general rule of thumb one.
Location - Should there be wild fish here? Should there be stocked fish here? Not 100% reliable either. Fish move. And some places should have both or neither!
Overall coloration - least reliable. We're talking about that "butter" color, as well as any vertical barring. Purely diet based, and changes quickly with a change in diet (as in a few months, based on my observations). Wild fish can be pale and stocked ones can color up. But, color is the first impression on viewing a fish and it's probably 70% accurate.
Most of the above lead to a pretty good conclusion most of the time. i.e. none of them alone is 100% reliable. But if the vast majority of the markers are one way or the other, then you can be pretty comfortable saying one way or the other. If you've got 6 markers of wild that are 80% accurate each, and 0 of stocked. Yeah, it's wild.
M
markp
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Childhood friend's family is part of the first camp up from 7-mile campground so fished that section quite a bit through my lifetime. Cannot beat high water up there, unless it is also raining in late May/early June as well, big BWOs and GD sitting on the water mean big boys on the surface.
Those are fantastic fish for sure, that stream changes from mainly just runs from Morris up to Big Dam hollow, back to some nice holes until you get to the bridge on Francis branch. I would be worried to state this but if conditions are not perfect you would swear there is nothing in the stream, much harder than downstream. Also, got to be comfortable with the rattlers, seen more than a few through the years, they love sitting under those ferns. Got engaged up at Slate but have not been able to make it up there for a few years.
Thanks for the pics!
Those are fantastic fish for sure, that stream changes from mainly just runs from Morris up to Big Dam hollow, back to some nice holes until you get to the bridge on Francis branch. I would be worried to state this but if conditions are not perfect you would swear there is nothing in the stream, much harder than downstream. Also, got to be comfortable with the rattlers, seen more than a few through the years, they love sitting under those ferns. Got engaged up at Slate but have not been able to make it up there for a few years.
Thanks for the pics!
M
Mike
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If I had run into these fish on a fish population survey I most likely would have called #5, nicer Slate brown, a formerly stocked fish. I was generally conservative in this regard, as I should have been, and its coloration reminds me of the many hundreds (at least) of adults that I examined that used to result from stocked brown fingerlings in the Tully. I probably also would have held the Slate Run fish up to the light to see through its caudal fin (looking for regrowth).
The other problem with just looking at photos of the fish aside from not being able to look as closely at the fish as one would in the field is that stocked fish from various sources add to the difficulty of stocked vs wild ID of big fish. Some hatcheries within the PFBC for example produce big browns that have very little fin wear. Co-ops often produce fish (at least in the past) that had better color and less fin wear than PFBC fish, especially ST. I have no idea how "wild" the fish look when stocked by non-state, non-club source(s) in Pine that then can run into Slate.
The other problem with just looking at photos of the fish aside from not being able to look as closely at the fish as one would in the field is that stocked fish from various sources add to the difficulty of stocked vs wild ID of big fish. Some hatcheries within the PFBC for example produce big browns that have very little fin wear. Co-ops often produce fish (at least in the past) that had better color and less fin wear than PFBC fish, especially ST. I have no idea how "wild" the fish look when stocked by non-state, non-club source(s) in Pine that then can run into Slate.
T
troutbert
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Can trout move up over Manor Falls?
klingy
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wildtrout2
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There's no doubt in my mind, that's a wild brown. A real good one.
ryansheehan
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If you were at almost any place except Slate I would go with a no doubt wild. The fish they put in Pine are the closest looking to wild fish I've ever seen and many run into Slate when Pine warms. Many of the stockers have the blue or black hue near the eye. The only way I knew they were stockers was because the fins and tails were a little rough bit that would heal pretty quickly. I will try to find some pics. My verdict is they are beautiful fish either way but I wouldn't even try to guess in that stream. Congrats on a great day on Slate, that's a tough little stream.
