More crowded with fewer fisherman?

[afishinado]

I’m starting this thread after reading the thread “money problems” and how it morphed into a discussion about urban sprawl, more crowds, and less places to fish and hunt, although it ain’t really all THAT bad. True, because of urban sprawl, there are less wild areas to hunt and fish in, but particularly with fishing, there are a lot of reclaimed streams and rivers now holding fish that were toilet bowls and mine drainage repositories not that many years ago.

With respect to the crowds while fishing, if I didn’t know that fishing license sales were down, just from my experience, I would say that there are more fisherman today not less - fly fisherman in particular. I believe that having less places to fish and more information available, has concentrated the fishing pressure to certain streams and rivers at certain times, making it seem like there are more fisherman out there.

Before the Internet, didn’t we all choose our fishing spot blindly? We had no idea what the conditions and were until we parked our car along the stream and checked it out. How many times did you pull up to the stream, only to see it roaring and colored like chocolate milk because of a local thunderstorm the night before. And if we chose to fish stocked water, in the old days we had no idea as to when, or even if, the water had been stocked. Also, we all guessed on what if anything was hatching.

Now when I want to plan a fishing trip, I have at my fingertips the precipitation analysis page to see what parts of the State or region got the most precipitation in the last 24 hours, 7days, 14 days, etc. Now I pull up the USGS site to tell see in real-time the current flow level of each stream, and in some cases the temperature and turbidity of the water I plan to fish. I can click on the satellite and radar images, and the forecast page to see the current and forecasted air temperature, wind speed, and see the cloud cover or precipitation in the area (150 cfs flow and 20 mph winds at 2pm, better leave the 3wt at home and grab the 5 wt.) Click on the PFBC site to get the dates and stream sections that are stocked (bigger fish – thank God I took the 5 wt!). I can also check the map showing all stocked and wild streams by county. In addition, I can look at the listing of wild trout streams with the population density classification of each stream. Go to maps to find and print out the best driving route and directions with the exact mileage, and then zoom in and click and drag on the satellite image to “explore” the area in detail. Now bring up the local fly shop report to get the stream report on flow, hatches, and recommended flies. Grannoms are hatching? Go to a site to find photos and info about the insect and get recipes and tying info for the pattern. For even more specific information you can read the many fishing forums for the latest stream and hatch reports. If the latest info on the stream is not there, just post a question about the fishing conditions to get more up-to-date info.

Many of us, especially those on this board do some or some of the above to decide where to fish. When someone posts that the Little J is at a great level, and the fish are boiling up the water because of the grannom hatch, what kind of fishing pressure would you expect? Most of the time, when I read about fishing success on a stream, I plan not to fish there in anticipation of the crowds. Oftentimes I pray for a little rain on the weekend, not just necessarily for its effect on the flow or hatches, but more for the effect on the crowds. Also rain usually gets me off the hook at home. “Honey, its gonna rain, I’ll have to put off painting the house and cutting the lawn this weekend…..maybe I’ll go fishin?”

I undoubtedly see more fly fisherman now, and find it harder to get away from the crowds today, even though there are less licenses sold and less fly fisherman than years ago. I believe I do catch more fish today than in years past, probably because of my years of fishing experience, and better info on where to and how to fish. But I also find it harder to find the solitude I am looking for in my fly-fishing experience. In the last few years, even some of the smaller wild streams I fish have been discovered by others, or have recently posted by the landowner. It used to be, other than by the locals from the area, the lesser-known trout streams were…..lesser known. I now try to have a plan A, B, and C on the streams I plan to fish in the area.

Let me make it clear that I’m not slamming all those that post stream reports and info about fishing spots. I thoroughly enjoy reading all them. I especially look forward to (like the release of the next “Harry Potter” book) the adventures of Sal, and the photos and descriptions of his fishing exploits. I’ve learned a lot on this and other sites, and hopefully I contribute something to the pool of knowledge on the board. Keep it coming!

What I am trying to say is that we all both benefit and pay a price for all the fishing information available. I believe that today’s fishing is a trade-off – better info about where and how to fish, but more fisherman concentrated in fewer places to fish, and less solitude. I’m not really complaining, because I enjoy fly fishing more now than I ever did before, but not cuz it’s necessarily better than before…IMHO. Good luck.

 

[Acristickid]

afish-

I think you answered your question.

Yes,you are going to see crowds where the streams are'nt blown out (with recent rains) or streams that clear fast, that have access, hatches going on, flyshops and or hatch charts displaying what flies are hot.

If most flyfishers are gleening their information from the same 4 or 5 sources makes sense to me that is where the crowds will be.

I sometimes once reviewing the info do the opposite as what the masses might do. P-

 

[tabasco_joe]

Well the license numbers continue to drop each year so it's obvious there are less people fishing. Most of the drop probably comes from the fringe that only fished the first week or two. especially in the southeast part of the state where few streams hold trout past Memorial Day. I agree it sometimes seems like there are more people fishing in fly streams. But thinking back most of those times were on weekends. I get a lot of vacation so I fish a number of weekdays. I counted over 150 days fly fishing in the last two years. (Many only a few hours not the full day.) I can remember a number of days on the LL when there were no others in sight. Quite a few on Penns and even a few on Fishing Creek in the narrows. Could it be there is a large concentration on weekends with a big dropoff on weekdays?

BTW somewhere I saw an estimate on the number of flyfishers nationally. The number increased through the 80s with a peak just after the early 90s and "the movie". Since then it continued to drop by something like 40%. I wish I could find the survey results again.

 

[FarmerDave]

excuse me for only skimming your message. i might have missed a few things.

I'd like to add a couple other possible explanations.

Awhile back I read an article/survey, and it showed that A has the most hours spent fishing of any other state. it seems the anglers of PA are more passionate about their pastime. Fewer anglers spending more time angling. I think it was on the PF&BC website.

Also, even though there is more water in the state that has fish, the number of streams miles that are fishable to the public surely had declined with all the posted waters etc.

I think a lot of the loss in angling was loss of freezer fillers. I know a bunch quit when the number of trout stocked was reduced. And i think even before that, some dropped as the number of no bait streams increased. It's a perception thing. they lost a little water, and felt that most of the trout were put in the special streams.

if any of this was said, I apologize for repeating it.

 

[tabasco_joe]

FarmerDave; good point about teh passion side. Another thought but goes the other way, I bet the ratio of trout to bass anglers has changed over the last 30 years to where there are a lot more bass anglers. I know I was primarily a bass angler up until a couple years ago. There certainly are more people fishing from boats for bass than there were 30 years ago. maybe the bass anglers are more passionate as well. (By bass anglers I'm refering to non-fly.)

 

[dryflyguy]

Affishinado:

I've been flyfishing for 25 years now, and quite honestly believe that the last few years have been my best.
A lot of it has to do with experience, but the increase in information has definitely been a help for me. No more driving 3-4 hours to find a muddy stream. I can pretty much check all that on-line now before i go, and change my plans accordingly, or even just stay home if the water's bad everywhere.
As for crowds, I'm usually always off weekdays, and that is a big plus for me.
But I also know many hot spots that are off the beaten path, and I can find solitude even on busy holiday weekends. If you're willing to "hoof it" abit, I think you can always find a good uncrowded spot.
I've posted alot about bike fishing on streams such as the Yough, Oil and Pine Creeks - great way to get away from everyone, and much needed exercise to boot!
I would also like to say that I really don't think the Little Juniata is as as crowded as it was 15-20 years. Since they made it trophy trout, and then finally no kill water, I don't think it's all that bad anymore. And I rarely see a bait fisherman there now. I even fished there memorial day weekend this year, and could pretty much fish whereever i wanted.
I also see a lot more guys practicing catch and release on open water now, than I did 20 years ago. It really seems like the popular thing to do.

So bottom line, I see all this information as pretty much a big plus IMO

 

[Chaz]

I don't think for a minute there are fewer anglers, I do think that since the advent of the senior license there are fewer license buyers. It's is a very logical assumption, as the age of anglers advances, more and more anglers opt for the one time only purchase of the lifetime senior license.
I went to Stony Creek once, it happened to be right after a stocking unfortunately, but there were hundreds of seniors out getting their limits, wondering why I was throwing all my fish back. I even had a few ask if they could keep mine, to which I said no, it's illegal.

 

[JackM]

Unless Stony is regulated so it is illegal to keep any trout, then it is not illegal to give another angler your catch. An angler who gives away a trout must count the given trout toward his/her limit and the receiving angler also counts the same trout toward his/her limit, according to the regulations.