Middle of the Hole ..

[Stagger_Lee]

Walking VC ystrday with my son and I passed a fishing hole I have fished a couple of times. For arguments sake the hole is 15 ft and holds a decent amt of fish.

1) They weren't rising

2) They were abt 5 - 7 feet below the surface

If nymphs are for the floor of the pool and dry's up top (and they don't rise to any) ... what type of fly and how would I fish that area of the pool (top 1/3 - 1/2)?

 

[PennypackFlyer]

Match the hatch with the dryfly indicator and then float a nymph about 3- 5 feet below it And as always cast up into the shallows and let it drift back through the large pool. Try various size nymphs to see what they are interested in.
- This would be my recommendation.

 

[Stagger_Lee]

If you can't match the hatch/no hatch, what is best to use for dryfly indicator?

 

[Volksnurse]

A large caddis is always good,or a stimulator, or a royal wulff. Its just being used as an indicator so it's really not written in stone...if its close to something that is usually hatching that at least increases your chances...

 

[PennypackFlyer]

I second volksnurse's response. And add --anything that is easy for your eyesight.

 

[pete41]

If they're that deep,if you can see them,they're eyeballing you,so things that might work,might not.Unless they are really use to people waving things around.Hypothetically of course.lol

 

[Heritage-Angler]

If that hole is indeed 15' long, and 5-7' deep, I have my doubts as to the effectiveness of a dry/dropper rig.

Dry/dropper rigs are at their best in shallower water situations. Using a nymph heavy enough to get 7' deep in less than 5' of drift would require something like a half of a chicken to act as an indicator.

To me, this situation calls for a heavy nymph rig with no indicator. Something like a tungsten beadhead nymph with lots of lead wraps underneath the body. Or two. Or a three nymph rig. You'll need a long length of tippet before the flies to allow them to sink as quickly as possible.

Use a tuck cast right at the head of the pool to drive those nymphs down deep, getting them to the bottom quickly, so they don't land on top of the fish, or spook them with the entry splash. Lead the nymphs back toward you, and feel and/or watch the leader for signs of a take - as well as watching for a visual of a take. Keep the rod angle (and therefor the leader angle) high to get the flies to the bottom and keep them there.

In lieu of this, I might just tie on a really heavy streamer, like a tungsten conehead bugger, and drift that through the hole.

Lots of options might work, but those are my choices. I'd have to see what the stream looked like, and more important, see the current flow to make my decision. YMMV....

 

[csoult]

I'd pull a bugger through it, strip pause, strip pause.

 

[Maurice]

I think he is saying the hole is 15' deep and the fish are suspended at 5-7' in the column.

Wow, if thats so, I have never seen that in PA. 15' deep hole on a trout stream that is. Its difficult to find one five feet in PA that you can look into.

But none the less, if we are talking about suspended fish I would get up at the head of the hole and cast across, let the fly sink in the side eddy and then let the current take the flyline down past them with the fly swinging past them.

Small wet fly, nymph midge larvae.

But I wouldn't spend much time on them....if they are suspended in that area of the column they are probably sleeping. Something tells me the currents in that hole create a low drag area there. It would be like them lying on the bottom.

 

[Stagger_Lee]

Thanks for the advice gents.

I think he is saying the hole is 15' deep and the fish are suspended at 5-7' in the column.

Wow, if thats so, I have never seen that in PA. 15' deep hole on a trout stream that is. Its difficult to find one five feet in PA that you can look into.

Maurice, my depth perception is horrible, especially when I'm not wearing my contacts or my scripts. That is why i said "for arguments sake". I have only fished 2 streams that would be considered trout streams (VC and LL) and wouldn't even begin to debate avg depth and size of fishing holes with you guys.

 

[afishinado]

Stagger, with FFing, 2+2 seldom equals 4.

Seek advice, but the best part of FFing is messing around with things such as rigs, techniques, presentations, flies, etc. to try to find out what works in a given situation, or stream or fish.

At some point we may even read about the Stagger method or Stagger fly that vacuums the trouts out of the hole.

 

[Foxgap239]

afishinado wrote:

At some point we may even read about the Stagger method or Stagger fly that vacuums the trouts out of the hole.

Afish, I don't think dynamite qualifies as a fly! :-D

 

[pcray1231]

Yeah, 15' is awfully deep. That's 2-3 "you's". There's only a handful of places on VC that truly top chest waders.

Just say that it's a deep hole and the fish are suspended about halfway? Dry dropper or any indi method with fly suspended to the height of the fish. How far that is below the dry/indi depends on current and such. In heavy current often you need to have better than 2-3 times the distance between indi and fly as the depth you want to achieve. In dead still waters, you want exactly that depth.

If the pool is slow, as many are on VC, this is a tough situation. No getting around it. Need an indi, and need to get relatively close to be effective. And by doing so, you get too close and spook them. The real answer is to skip that spot, file it away in your mental log. After a rain, when the water is colored and up enough to give you some current, that's when you attack it.

 

[pete41]

Fox-you beat me to it-gonna say that.lol
Maurice sounds pretty good to.

 

[MHanes]

All good info I would suspend a Zebra midge or small scud as they suggested.

Skip that spot can be a good suggestion but come on! Half the fun is figuring this stuff out. It might be the only section that does not have an angler in it. What do you learn by moving to a new spot and waiting until a rain? NOTHING!! I don't know about everyone else but I can't always get to a stream when the conditions are ideal after a rain you fish when and where you can fish.

Fish don't sleep! I am betting they are in a location where the food from the run that created the pool ends up getting suspended. Its a tuff spot to catch them but I am sure it can be done. Also don't rule out adding some movement or lifting the flies when they are near the fish if dead drift does not work. If all else fails throw a green weenie or bugger at them.

 

[pete41]

they may not sleep but they do clam up-lol

 

[Stagger_Lee]

Foxgap wrote:

afishinado wrote:
At some point we may even read about the Stagger method or Stagger fly that vacuums the trouts out of the hole.

Afish, I don't think dynamite qualifies as a fly!

My own 'patriot' pattern. I can become an interwebz FF legend.

 

[pcray1231]

MHanes,

I'm not saying I wouldn't cast into said pool. I'm saying I'd give it my shot, but not get too downtrodden if it doesn't work out, nor would I spend a whole lot of time there if the situation isn't good. That's life. On a stream like VC, in a given day you may fish 40 or 50 pools. All of them have fish in them. Only a few of them are gonna be ideal under those conditions. Cover water, don't get caught up on a spot destined for failure, instead aim at getting to more of the spots which are do-able.

From a more broad perspective, like everyone else I don't have tons of time to fish. When I get my chance, I go, regardless of conditions. Nonetheless, it's important to have a lot of options regarding which streams, which stream sections, etc. And absolutely, I choose which one to go to based on conditions.

So, ok, I have a Saturday to fish. Had it circled on my calendar for a month. Come Friday evening, I realize it hasn't rained in 2 weeks, and the gauges say everything is low and clear. That sucks. But oh well, I'm still gonna fish. I'm just gonna choose a stream that's more likely to produce in said conditions. VC doesn't fit that description, so left to my own devices, VC probably isn't where I'm going in the morning. Instead I might fish big water, where spooking them is less of a concern. Or I might pick a really fast stream, where the pools are largely the same regardless of flow.

If we'd had gotten 2 inches of rain Friday night, I may choose Valley over those other streams, which would be blown out to the point they'd be very difficult to fish.

Conditions determine WHERE I go, not when.

 

[Foxgap239]

I'm pretty sure I know the pool Stag is referring to. I will say that pool is a b*tch to fish period. This is the pool where I got in hot water on the forum over saying I use that "other" tippet size. This pool is tough for guys with 20 years experience and would be almost impossible for newbies under low and clear water. I do not even try fishing that pool this time of year. PCray says it right, there are many other good pools and wasting time on that one would be exactly that, wasting time.

Now that pool aside, in a similiar situation, I would definitely try a dry dropper. I have been successful with that in that pool too but only when the fish were rising.

 

[Foxgap239]

Stagger_Lee wrote:
My own 'patriot' pattern. I can become an interwebz FF legend.

Or felon, your call! :lol: