MD proposed changes for brook trout

[silverfox]

jifigz wrote:
What I'd like to see PA do:

No stocking over wild trout, period. Low limits on harvest with a possible slot limit, no C&R only streams.

That would be good enough for trout conservation, methinks. It leaves the option for harvest, relieves a ton of pressure with no stocked fish, both from the absence of stocked fish and the anglers that wouldn't be there due to the stream not being stocked, and most who fish at that level wouldn't harvest or would harvest very little.

I think we often overthink this.

The biggest hurdle here in PA is dealing with what is likely the biggest factor in limiting brook trout size and abundance. People always say things like "well, stream X gets too warm in the summer, so go ahead and stock it.". The problem with that is that trout use different parts of a watershed during different times of the year.

What has worked so well on the USR system is that the fish are able to use the mainstem mostly unhindered during the winter. While MD does stock the mainstem with rainbows only, and does allow harvest in the section right above the lake, there isn't the kind of pressure generally there like there is in PA with the big opening day hype. The harvest on the Savage will likely go away with this regulation change. I suspect in the not too distant future they'll stop stocking the rainbows there too.

I know it's been mentioned, but I think it bears repeating, the biggest brookies in a system are likely being harvested in the downstream "marginal" water in the spring along with stocked fish. Late May is likely when these fish would be returning to the tribs or cold water refuges throughout a system in most areas.

How many of you have caught brookies in the mainstem Penns? A good number, I suspect. That illustrates the issue. We look at those 3rd, 4th etc. order streams as ripe for the stocking because the brookies only live in the headwaters and those stocked fish and added pressure don't interfere with them. That's the fallacy that needs to change.

 

[salmonoid]

I'd like to see them just stopping brook trout, period. With the appearance of gill lice, there's a good reason to do this. After 3-4 years, only holdover fish with a strong survivor instinct would be around, and eventually, just wild fish. Add to that C&R and you have a chance at conserving the brookie. Most streams that have brookies and are also stocked (say with rainbows) will sometimes turn up a holdover rainbow late into the summer or even the fall or winter, but my experience is that they are looking might skinny most of the time. There are a few exceptions to that rule in PA, but it holds for the most part.

George Harvey, while working for Penn State, did a study on brook trout movement in Kettle Creek back in the 40's. In that system, most of the trout that were going to move out of Kettle made their moves into the tributaries by the end of May.

 

[jifigz]

Silverfox,

No, if there are wild trout there during any part of the year, it shouldn't be stocked. NO STOCKING OVER WILD TROUT, PERIOD. Hell, let's just end trout stocking altogether.

And honestly I've never caught a brookie out of Penns. I don't fish it often..it's a 30 40 minute drive and I've got other streams closer that I like just as much.

 

[troutbert]

silverfox wrote:

jifigz wrote:
What I'd like to see PA do:

No stocking over wild trout, period. Low limits on harvest with a possible slot limit, no C&R only streams.

That would be good enough for trout conservation, methinks. It leaves the option for harvest, relieves a ton of pressure with no stocked fish, both from the absence of stocked fish and the anglers that wouldn't be there due to the stream not being stocked, and most who fish at that level wouldn't harvest or would harvest very little.

I think we often overthink this.

The biggest hurdle here in PA is dealing with what is likely the biggest factor in limiting brook trout size and abundance. People always say things like "well, stream X gets too warm in the summer, so go ahead and stock it.". The problem with that is that trout use different parts of a watershed during different times of the year.

What has worked so well on the USR system is that the fish are able to use the mainstem mostly unhindered during the winter. While MD does stock the mainstem with rainbows only, and does allow harvest in the section right above the lake, there isn't the kind of pressure generally there like there is in PA with the big opening day hype. The harvest on the Savage will likely go away with this regulation change. I suspect in the not too distant future they'll stop stocking the rainbows there too.

I know it's been mentioned, but I think it bears repeating, the biggest brookies in a system are likely being harvested in the downstream "marginal" water in the spring along with stocked fish. Late May is likely when these fish would be returning to the tribs or cold water refuges throughout a system in most areas.

How many of you have caught brookies in the mainstem Penns? A good number, I suspect. That illustrates the issue. We look at those 3rd, 4th etc. order streams as ripe for the stocking because the brookies only live in the headwaters and those stocked fish and added pressure don't interfere with them. That's the fallacy that needs to change.

I haven't fished in MD, so can only go by things I've read about their brookie management. But it sounds like things are very different than in PA.

In PA, the stocking over native brook trout in SMALL streams, where the brookies live all year, is very common, as in hundreds of miles of such streams.

Until that is changed, I don't think there will be anything done regarding the brookies that move back and forth between the large streams and their tributaries.

The streams I'm talking about, if people looked at photos of them, they would describe them as a "typical brook trout stream."

The stocking is done by the PFBC and by coop hatcheries. Much of it is done on public land.