Material substitutes for Griffith's Gnat suggestions?

[PaScoGi]

I cannot find grizzly hackle in sizes 18 or 22 anywhere. I have never tied a Griffith's Gnat but every recipe I have found calls for grizzly hackle and I cannot find it in small sizes.

Does anyone use any other color hackle for Griffith's Gnat?

Thanks for any help!

 

[alatt]

Holsingers fly shop has a pro grade saddle for $60.00. They usually have a very good range of feathers all the way down to #22.

 

[JeffK]

I would think most natural materials would work well. Brown or black hackle is common for many midge patterns. My smaller midge/olive patterns are simply a thread body and a hackle. A brown thread/brown hackle fly covers some brown midges and an olive thread/dun hackle is a small olive fly. Try a couple and see how they work.

 

[PennKev]

PaScoGi wrote:
I cannot find grizzly hackle in sizes 18 or 22 anywhere. I have never tied a Griffith's Gnat but every recipe I have found calls for grizzly hackle and I cannot find it in small sizes.

Does anyone use any other color hackle for Griffith's Gnat?

Thanks for any help!

Virtually any modern dry fly neck/cape will have at least some hackle that small.

A grizzly neck is a good investment for any tier, even if you prefer saddles. The diversity of hackle sizes found on necks comes in handy. You don't need to get a top grad neck either if cost is a concern. "Tier's Grade" or similar grades are pretty good these days. I have not noticed any shortage of grizzly capes, they are out there if you go that route.

To better answer your question, almost any lighter colored hackle will work. Cream and light or medium dun are particularly good substitutes. Black or dark dun will work well if you want a darker over-all look to the fly.

 

[PaScoGi]

Thanks, I prefer the Whiting 100 packs and none of them have Grizzly in those small sizes. I am fine with buying a saddle, but would a fly shop be OK if I took a hackle gauge to make sure that the saddle has some feathers that go down to size 22? Not sure on the ethics of that.

Thanks for the responses regardless.

 

[afishinado]

PennKev wrote:

PaScoGi wrote:
I cannot find grizzly hackle in sizes 18 or 22 anywhere. I have never tied a Griffith's Gnat but every recipe I have found calls for grizzly hackle and I cannot find it in small sizes.

Does anyone use any other color hackle for Griffith's Gnat?

Thanks for any help!

Virtually any modern dry fly neck/cape will have at least some hackle that small.

A grizzly neck is a good investment for any tier, even if you prefer saddles. The diversity of hackle sizes found on necks comes in handy. You don't need to get a top grad neck either if cost is a concern. "Tier's Grade" or similar grades are pretty good these days. I have not noticed any shortage of grizzly capes, they are out there if you go that route.

To better answer your question, almost any lighter colored hackle will work. Cream and light or medium dun are particularly good substitutes. Black or dark dun will work well if you want a darker over-all look to the fly.

^ PennKev is right on the mark with all his advice.

I checked around online and the small sizes of Whiting 100 packs in grizzly are hard to find. But buying hackle by size is not a very cost efficient way to go anyway. For the price of a few 100 packs you can buy a 1/2 cape and tie hundreds of all sizes of flies.

My suggestion, if you are a serious tyer, is to buy a Whiting grizzly 1/2 cape. Grizzly is a must have hackle color for a fly tyer and the cape will have the smaller sizes you seek as well as many of the most commonly needed sizes like 12-18. I cannot locate a "pro grade" the lower grade that PK suggested, but found a bronze grade 1/2 cape from a reputable shop that I've dealt with before.

Check this out > https://www.caddisflyshop.com/whiting-bronze-1-2-cape.html

$45.50 is a fair price for a Whiting 1/2 cape. It is good quality and will keep you tying for years and for many hundreds of good quality flies. Good luck.

 

[dryflyguy]

PaScoGi wrote:
Thanks, I prefer the Whiting 100 packs and none of them have Grizzly in those small sizes. I am fine with buying a saddle, but would a fly shop be OK if I took a hackle gauge to make sure that the saddle has some feathers that go down to size 22? Not sure on the ethics of that.

Thanks for the responses regardless.

One of the advantages of buying from a shop, is that you can see for yourself if something is exactly what you're looking for.

I've always examined any hackle before buying.
Especially with the price of it these days.
I have always asked before hand though, and have always been told no problem with doing it.

Another thing to consider if you're not looking to spend a lot of money on this:
You can buy what are called "Indian" necks that are a lot cheaper.
They don't usually have a lot of smaller size hackles.
But I have found a few that did.

You would certainly want to examine them before buying.

 

[Bamboozle]

I like barred ginger (or Cree if you are lucky enough to have any), a lot for Griffith's Gnats ever since a buddy gave me one with that combo that worked great for me. His name was Al so we nicknamed it "Al's Gnat" as a joke and play on "Al's Rat," (from a different Al).

In regards to hackle, I like my palmered hackled flies with hackle about 1-1/8 times the hook gape or less. If you use a hackle gauge or a bare hook to measure and size your hackle, that method DOESN'T factor any materials wound over the shank so you end up with hackle that protrudes further past the gape. That may or may not be an issue to you.

For that reason when I buy and use Whiting 100 packs, I choose at least a size smaller than the hook size the package states. I choose full, 1/2 or 1/4 saddles the same way. In other words if I am tying a size 20 Griffith's or Al's Gnat, I use size 22 hackle.

Finally, I don't know who you like to buy materials from, but in the past I've had very good luck buying sight unseen from Dette's in Livingston Manor. I don't know if Joe Fox is still a part owner, but a call to him or them should get you the hackle you are after or a reasonable facsimile.

Good luck!

 

[flyguyfishing]

It seems TCO fly shop online has grizzly in 18. Nothing smaller though.

https://www.tcoflyfishing.com/products/whiting-100-pack-size-18?variant=31243152162858

 

[DGC]

Grizzly dyed dun is very similar in the Nature's Spirit dry fly tops line. These run about $2.75 each and the number of hackles varies, but they come in the sizes you seek. Not easy to find but Holsinger had them a year or two ago as does S Dakota Angler. Obviously not for a production situation.

 

[teedee]

Try Feather Emporium, I have purchased grizzly feathers down to size 24.

 

[discomidge]

+1 for Feather Emporium. I got a half cape set from them a while back that covers almost everything I need. And all of the half capes have some very small feathers. I was just tying #24 parachutes with them. Ordering is kind of old school but shipping was fast IIRC.

 

[PennKev]

I CANNOT recommend Feather Emporium. I wish I could. Their site shows lots of nice feathers, but my experience buying from them was awful. Item not shipped for *months* with no reply to emails. Then when it was shipped it was the incorrect saddle. Then the owner made me pay the return shipment or else he would not exchange for the correct saddle.

It was just terrible and no product on their site could tempt me to purchase from them again.

 

[Tigereye]

:....but would a fly shop be OK if I took a hackle gauge to make sure that the saddle has some feathers that go down to size 22? Not sure on the ethics of that."

No decent fly shop should mind, I've even asked to borrow a hackle guage and it was no problem. Tyers are always taking capes out of package and going through their personal inspection routine. See it alot with deer hair too. Ask first and I'm sure you will fine.

As an aside, not a true Griffiths Gnat, but a light dun CDC feather Palmered around the peacock makes for a good fly. You can trim to length abit using you fingers, but it seems a sloppy but not overly large hackle works quite well ie 22 fly with CDC hackle to fit a size 18.

 

[tomgamber]

:lol: it's a griffith gnat. If youre gonna spend this kind of energy, pick a fly with more than 2 ingredients.

 

[Regis]

One other suggestion. Use ostrich hero as a substitute for peacock. Olive, cream, and grey

 

[just_jon]

Here is a version that uses CDC in lieu of grizzly hackle.

if you absolutely need hackle, check out the Feather Emporium. They have Whiting 100 packs down to size 32 In stock.