Lyme

[Swattie87]

Did a two night backpacking trip two weekends ago…Friday July 24th – Sunday July 26th. On Monday July 27th I noticed a tick (nymph stage) attached to my stomach, just above the naval. It wasn’t engorged, and was fairly easy to remove. Given that, I thought it hadn’t been attached all that long (although it’s possible it was attached for as long as 72 hours given the timeframe of when I was in the woods and when I noticed it) and I decided on a wait and see approach. The initial small speck of redness at the bite site disappeared within about 48 hours of tick removal. Yesterday morning (August 3rd) I noticed a small ring of red around my naval. Today it is still relatively small, but slightly larger and more noticeable than yesterday. Took my temperature, and I am running a low grade (99.0 - 99.5) fever. I have had some mild headaches and a general feeling of fatigue the last couple of days…in absence of the tick bite I would have thought nothing of these as they are very mild.

Long story short I made an appointment with my doc for Thursday morning. (He was on vacation until then.) From the guys who have had Lyme or suspected they did, and gone through the diagnostics, any advice given the above? I’m thinking I’m essentially going to demand the antibiotics given the history of a recent tick bite and growing circular rash at the bite site. I haven’t been on antibiotics since I was 8 (I’m now 31), so I don’t think that should be an issue, but am I correct in demanding them if the doc advises an additional period of wait and see, or wants to confirm with a blood test first? Any concern about waiting until Thursday (11 days post noticing bite) to see my doc as opposed to getting in to someone else sooner?

Many thanks to those who respond. Not fun to think about. Given the type of fishing I do, and despite the usual precautions, I always sort of figured it was just a matter of when. Give me the rattlesnake encounter over the tick encounter every time.

 

[pcray1231]

They have a test. They will look for the rash.

But even in the absence of any rashes and before receieving results on the blood test, the doctor will prescribe the antibiotics. All you gotta say is tick bite and boom, you get antibiotics.

You may never even know the results of the blood test unless you call back and specifically ask. At which time they'll tell you, but also tell you it doesn't mean a darn as false positives are about 20%, and false negatives are about 20%, which means the test is wrong 40% of the time.....

Specifically, the test is right 100% of the time, for what it tests. But it doesn't test whether you currently have Lyme directly, it's an antibody test. It takes 2-10 weeks after infection before it becomes positive (by which time you should have been treated). And if you've had any infections in the past, and beat them naturally with similar antibodies, you'll test positive for Lyme. Also, if you do have Lyme, the antibiotics may cure it but you'll test positive for Lyme for the rest of your life, meaning future tests will be useless.

The success of the antibiotics is pretty good if taken early after being infected. Not so much if done later. You found the tick and are going within a matter of weeks. It's a hassle for sure but I wouldn't be overly concerned.

 

[Swattie87]

Pat - Basically my understanding as well.

Define your understanding of "early."

 

[pcray1231]

Within a month or so, I guess. The shorter, the better.

There are some Lyme horror stories. But in most cases they can't even verify it's Lyme, though it seems very possible that it is. Typically what happens is there was no tick bite identified. But recurring symptoms keep popping up over a matter of years. Lyme being one of those "symptoms vary" conditions, it's always a possibility when presented with a bewildering combination of symptoms. So some doctor does the test, and gets a positive result. Patient now convinced it's Lyme causing all their issues. Doctor treats for Lyme. Symptoms don't disappear, or only do so temporarily.

Was it Lyme to begin with? Nobody can know for sure. Sometimes no, sometimes yes most likely. But there is evidence that once Lyme hangs around long enough it gets into harder tissues where blood flow is less. Antibiotics kill it through the system, but not in those areas that don't see much blood flow. When antibiotics are stopped, reservoirs of unresolved Lyme then can re-infect the rest of the body. The only way to truly get rid of it is then very long term antibiotic treatments, and you have one of those situations where the cure may be worse than the disease.

But zap it before it gets to that stage and all seems well.

FWIW, I had Lyme. Similar to your situation. Got the antibiotics and I'm fine (well, in terms of Lyme, anyway).

 

[FarmerDave]

As far as I know I have never had lyme desease.

As far as I know, I have never had a tick attach to me. They wouldn't dare. I have found them on me, but never attached. And they were not deer ticks.

In most cases, I would (and have) personally refuse to take antibotics as a preventative measure. A little inflammation does not mean an infection requiring antibiotics.

However, this would not be one of those cases where I would refuse.

 

[k-bob]

sorry to hear it... I started a thread on July 9 with a link to a one hour NPR radio show about lyme I thought it was pretty good if you haven't heard it...

 

[shortrod2]

pcray1231 wrote:

But even in the absence of any rashes and before receieving results on the blood test, the doctor will prescribe the antibiotics. All you gotta say is tick bite and boom, you get antibiotics.

This is not always true. In my case, the doctor did not prescribe antibiotics at first.

I had a tick bite that was attached for maybe 10 hours and no rash. I just happened to have a checkup scheduled a few days later. During the checkup I told the doctor about the tick. He was confident that there was no danger.

A few days later I had flu-like symptoms (I thought I had the flu). A few weeks later my a couple of fingers on my right hand started twitching and a few days after that I bent at the knees to pick something off the floor and when I stood, I had pain in my knee. That's when I went back to the doctor. This time (luckily I think) I saw his assistant. I explained all of the above to the assistant and she prescribed the antibiotics. She also administered the test and the results came back negative.

The next time I saw the doctor, he said that he did not think that I had Lyme. I don't know if I did or didn't have Lyme, but I do think I had something at least similar. I believe. that what I had was transmitted by the tick. I am very grateful that the antibiotics removed the symptoms.

 

[dryflyguy]

Just about 20 years ago now, I developed a large red ring on the left side of my chest. But I never found a tic.
So, I saw my PCP. And even though it looked to be a classic lyme disease symptom to me - she kinda doubted that I had it, because this happened in the middle of winter. And I guess she figured tics weren't around then
She also told me that the lyme disease tests weren't very reliable yet at that time, and didn't run one on me.
She did give me a script for antibiotics though - which I was OK with.
After taking them for a week or two, the red ring slowly faded away.
And I thought that was end of it.
However, I've had achy joints ever since.
Did I have lyme disease? I think I probably did, but who knows.
A few years later, during my yearly physical - with a different doctor - I told him about my achy joints. So, he did run a lyme test on me - which came back negative

During the last few years, I've twice found tics embedded in me. And removed them myself.
I work at a hospital, and have become friends with several doctors there. And they gave me scripts for doxicycline, which is a pretty benign antibiotic according to them.

Best of luck to you

 

[tempy1429]

Hey guys. I'm currently a Physician Assistant student so I thought maybe I could help out. Pcray hit the nail on the head with this one. If you get a tick bite, a rash does not have to develop for it to become Lymes, but a rash is more indicative of it. I would go see your doctor as soon as possible and he will most likely prescribe you an antibiotic and it should take care of it and serve as a safety net. There is a test for it and its not entirely accurate. The test takes 6-8 weeks for a result so it just makes more sense to get the antibiotic just in case!

 

[AFISHN]

I've had Lyme several times and had to take IVs to knock it out(hopefully)
tempy1429 is on the mark!!
doxy is a relatively harmless antibotic. Go on it ASAP and do not wait for any tests

 

[salmonoid]

I thought I was going to end up in a similar spot. In late May to late June, I spent 11 out of 30 days in the woods, fishing and hiking. I did not see a tick at all during that time. At the very end of June, I came down with a fever, was tired and extremely achy, and could not figure out what was going on. After missing the second day of work, and having fevers that continued to spike to 103 degrees, I went to the doctor, fearful that it was Lyme. I told her I had been out in the woods for a few days, so she went through the normal paces of taking a rapid strep test, and then scheduling for blood to be drawn and a Lyme disease test to be performed. After the nurse did the strep test, the doctor came back into the room and I figured I was going to get stuck (I don't like needles, they make me lightheaded!). But, she came back to inform me, that to her surprise, I had tested positive for strep. Lyme disease test was canceled, antibiotics were prescribed and after another 1.5 days of fevers, I was back to normal (albeit a little tired, and dealing with the side effects of ingesting antibiotics for two weeks).

I hope for your sake that it is some other malady but the rash sure points in the initial direction of Lyme...

 

[Chaz]

There was an article recently in the PA Outdoor News, It comes out bi-weekly, I'm not sure which week. Anyway a Dr. wrote in and described the systems and the rash, I though it was good. My buddy not so much. Bottom line is the rash I saw just yesterday on that same buddies leg looked very similar to a blotch of poison ivy, except it was round and blotchier.
Got got a test as soon as the spot appeared and got a false negative., this was maybe up to 2 weey bad, because it may ks after the bite.
Last Friday he saw the Dr. again and was seen by a different Dr., one look and she ordered another test, and put him on anti-biotics.
A word of caution, the treatment takes place for about a month as I understand it, you want to make sure you don't stop the antibiotics before they are done, or you find the systems coming back, that is extremely bad, because the disease may become resistant to treatment of the same drug.
I've known many folks who got lyme, some not treated early and it festered for years un-dianosed. Don't let that happen to you.
edit: one last thing there is more than one test for lyme, if you are sure it's lyme get more tests or ask the DR. to have all the tests.

 

[dc410]

Swattie,

Screw the blood test! You should absolutely demand the antibiotics. The sooner you can get on them the better. Whenever my doctor prescribed an antibiotic for my lyme it was three weeks of doxycycline. It is a very old but very effective antibiotic for lyme disease symptoms (and it is also fairly cheap, there are newer much more expensive drugs that they may try to prescribe for you). Make sure you take the entire prescription. I literally have been bitten by dozens of deer ticks over the years working in the woods of SE PA and northern MD and DE. I contracted the lyme in 1992 and have had 3 or 4 recurrences of symtoms since. Doxycycline has always taken care of them for me. Early on I had a bit of a challenge to convince my doctor of my very high exposure to deer ticks. Just by chance, the one day when I was there for an appointment after having worked that morning I happened to pull one crawling off of the back of my neck and let it loose on the counter in the reception area. The whole office instantly when nuts! I don't even think any of them actually ever saw a live deer tick. Never had a problem getting a prescription after that!

 

[tempy1429]

Good stuff here guys. Moral of the story is that if you've been bitten by a tick, pulled one out of you, or have the "bullseye" rash, go to your doctor ASAP. Better safe than sorry especially with the complications of late stage Lymes. And Chaz, everyone should ALWAYS finish their antibiotics anytime they are prescribed to prevent those supermutant diseases like MRSA haha okay i'll get off my soapbox now, almost forgot this was a flyfishing site!

 

[salvelinus]

Five years ago I was taking a shower and noticed a red bulls-eye on my left thigh. I went right to the Dr. and got the antibiotics. The Dr. called all the staff in the exam room to show them. I never had any other symptoms, never noticed a deer tick.

Two or three years ago I was at our cabin fishing. I noticed a dog tick embedded on the right side of my waist. Got it out with some effort. A couple weeks later I found one attached inside my right thigh. Managed to get it off too with no ill effects. Dog ticks concern me too because a good friend of mine got Rocky Mt. Spotted Fever from one which messed him up pretty good.

CDC has info on symptoms here.

 

[SBecker]

My 7 year old son got Lyme last year. I noticed a bug bite one evening. Did not think anything about it. The next day that bug bite became a bigger oval and this



We immediately took him to the ER thinking it was a spider bite, as I never saw a tick. They gave him antibiotics and told us to follow up with a family doctor. We decided to forgo the family doctor and made an appointment with an infectious disease specialist at LVH. Long story short...it was never determined that he had positively contracted Lyme due to all the testing F ups, but the specialist said she was 70% sure it was. Luckily we had caught it fast enough that after 2-3 weeks of being tired he was fine. The specialist says he probably will never have any other problems, but he does tend to be tired at times that he shouldn't.

 

[elonDO]

As a family doctor in Central PA, I would certainly recommend going to the doctor with that history. In this area Lyme is certainly present and it is not a disease you want to mess around with. It typically takes at least 2 days for a tick to be embedded to transmit the disease. The classic "bull's eye" rash does not always have to be present & is actually present in less than 50% of cases. I agree with a lot of the other posts about testing. There is a test, but it is not great & can take several weeks to months for a positive test to occur.

Based on that history, the possibility that the tick was present for 2-3 days, and the rash, if I saw you in my office you'd be getting a 3 week course of Doxycycline.

Good luck!

 

[AkDan76]

Elon

Do you know of anywhere near you that does the igenex testing?

I will be down that way just after new years, so far no docs down south want to test because of where I live. The docs up here think I've lost my mind. Something put me under 3 years ago fast, I have yet to fully recover though it hasn't been as bad as it was 3 years ago the symptoms repeat every so often for no apperant reason.

They've tested just about everything they can think of at this point including heart tests. (had some odd palps and drastic bp spikes that come and go at random as well). Typically either tired, or tire fast. That summer I was doing triathlons including a half ironman. I've put on a pile of weight since, inactive and of course eating bad. At the time a nurse from PA mentioned I should get tested for lymes.

I've been visiting PA for the last 4 years twice a year usually spring and early winter (oct) hunting mostly, turkeys and deer. Along with hunting the last 21 years in KS MN WI MO NE again for deer/turkeys. Originally from MN, so this is something that could have happened over a lot of time.

I have at any given time symptoms that sound like stage 3 lymes. The local doc said it takes years....I've been doing this for 21 years since I moved to Ak taking multiple trips south, and grew up in the woods in Mn before that.

If you know anyone willing to do this test I'd like to get it done. Insurance is not an issue. The docs in AK (Fairbanks) will not take it serious. The nurses on the other hand, when someone said lymes, came flooding in to see 'the rash' LOL! They didn't see the humor..... If nothing else its something I need to rule out!!!

 

[Swattie87]

Thanks for the discussion and advice fellas. Circle is a little bigger today, but still relatively small. Half dollar size maybe. Feel about the same, tired, but not extremely so. No fever this morning. Heading to the doc tomorrow morning, and will be insisting on a course of antibiotics.

 

[jifigz]

Use a product with permethrin in it. I have never had a tick while using permethrin. Without, I've had PLENTY!