Lots of new pending "Class A" streams added 6/6/16

Some of the Survey Date's are from awhile ago like 2001? Wonder why those are just now hitting the list...maybe Mike can chime in on that?
 
I was wondering the same thing.
 
Shaner wrote:
Some of the Survey Date's are from awhile ago like 2001? Wonder why those are just now hitting the list...maybe Mike can chime in on that?
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If you go back and look at the older surveys, you will notice they are for the most part the Class A's. In the past, the PFBC had a policy of no stocking trout in Class A streams, and if approved, stocking would have to cease.

The PFBC has recently rescinded the policy of no stocking of Class A's, therefore they now have the ability to continue stocking on a stream-by-stream basis with the approval of the ED. If the stream or river is a popular stocked stream, they can now continue to stock it.

In addition, a Class A designation carries with it extra protections and a classification as a HQ-CWF for the PA DEP to enforce the Federal Clean Water Act.

I would hope that the desire to stock a stream for anglers did not weigh into the PFBC dragging their feet to propose approval of the more protective designation.

One must also consider special interests opposing the designation since rules for discharging in and development near the stream and watershed become stricter with the HQ-CWF designation.

Anyway, just my opinion / observations.

Note: Before you climb all over the PFBC; remember they don't even have the clout in Harrisburg to raise the fishing license fee 50 cents to cover increased costs. I believe your ire is better directed at the guys running the show in the Capital Building in Harrisburg. My 2 again.
 
I just saw the list and well Bald Eagle in Clinton County for class A? Hum who are these idiots? After I saw that I couldn't take any of that serious.
 
Thanks for the info. I've been meaning to check out one of those areas and now I have a more specific spot to start.
 
Little harsh calling the surveyors idiots no? They are trying to benefit you by protecting wild fish. Or is that a stocked stream that you like to frequent and are worried they'll stop stocking ?
 
I do see now it says "..And/Or Wild Trout", so the title of the thread is misleading. You can make that list if you find like 1 trout in the entire stream can't you...
 
DanL wrote:
I do see now it says "..And/Or Wild Trout", so the title of the thread is misleading. You can make that list if you find like 1 trout in the entire stream can't you...
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I'm pretty sure it's 2 of different ages.
 
Yeah John is right no way bald eagle in clinton county is class A trout water.
 
Not trying to be a jerk - but have you guys fished it? I haven't, but my good friend has, with good results. I have far too little info to go on to agree or disagree with you guys - just curious why the skepticism.

I think it's a bit excessive to call tiny UNT trickles that are brushy and 3 ft wide Class A streams. However you calculate biomass, that doesn't amount to a quality fishing experience. Looking at some of them on google maps, some are so small I wouldn't even think about fishing them. And I'm a small stream junkie...
 
sarce wrote:
Not trying to be a jerk - but have you guys fished it? I haven't, but my good friend has, with good results. I have far too little info to go on to agree or disagree with you guys - just curious why the skepticism.

I think it's a bit excessive to call tiny UNT trickles that are brushy and 3 ft wide Class A streams. However you calculate biomass, that doesn't amount to a quality fishing experience. Looking at some of them on google maps, some are so small I wouldn't even think about fishing them. And I'm a small stream junkie...
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Class A refers to the population not the fishing experience. A quality experience is subjective as well. Some of us may enjoy scuba diving under mountain laurels to catch 5" gemmies while others find such an experience frustrating.
 
Streams get added to the list more regularly than you would probably think.

Streams that are being proposed can be found in the Pennsylvania Bulletin, more often then not there is a stream or two added to the list.
 
I love how people say its not class A cause they didn't catch fish... look at Letort-well known class A and most of the time people don't catch fish...just cause you don't catch them doesn't mean they aren't there! ;-)
 
Phiend, I enjoy it myself - but haven't found the quality of fishing those types of streams to change much depending on the Class A rating. At a certain size of trickle stream, it seems unnecessary to differentiate between them IMO. Those populations fluctuate tremendously from year to year as well.

Also, and I don't have it in front of me, but doesn't the class A definition say something along the lines of "these populations have a biomass that produces a quality fishing experience without the need for stocking"? Maybe I'm overstating the fishing quality part.

Anyway it's a small grievance about an otherwise great initiative to document and protect wild trout streams in PA.

 
"Streams that support a population of wild (natural reproduction) trout of sufficient size and abundance to support a long-term and rewarding sport fishery. The Commission does not stock these streams."

I guess I was wrong.
 
stocked class a from rule....
These waters include Fishing Creek, Clinton County; Little Lehigh Creek, Section 4, Lehigh County; Little Lehigh Creek, Section 7, Lehigh County; Martins Creek, Northampton County; Monocacy Creek, Section 8, Northampton County; Monocacy Creek, Section 9, Lehigh/Northampton Counties; Penns Creek, Centre County; Pohopoco Creek, Carbon County; Yellow Creek, Section 4, Bedford County; and Yellow Creek, Section 5, Bedford County

rulemakings #255 class A stocking

Class A rule
 
This has been a big part of our TU discussion. Class A designation is as important to protection of headwaters and conservation as it is to fishing opportunities.

Undoubtedly, some Class A streams are virtually unfishable, but they play a role in the quality of more accessible streams.
 
I grew up fishing Bald Eagle Creek in Clinton County. Fished it on a daily basis as a kid. It's a warm water stream from below Sayers Dam to the West Branch Susquehanna. There are a few trout right where the spillway is but that is Center County. There are trout within a 50 yard stretch of Bald Eagle where Fishing Creek dumps in. You get 50 feet down from where Fishing Creek dumps in its back up into the 80s in the summer. When wet wading you can have one foot in 80 degree water and one in 65 degree water. It is not a trout stream at all once Bald Eagle dumps into Sayers. There are tons of carp in Bald Eagle in Clinton County along with bass, catfish, panfish, and the occasional walleye and musky...no trout except exactly where Fishing Creek dumps in.
 
Rules of thumb:

Natural reproduction - requires that two year classes be present, the assumption being that if two year classes are there, they are the result of reproduction in that stream instead of just a stray fish or two migrating. Biomass is moot and status does not impact stocking.

Class A - requires that a biomass threshold be met on two consecutive surveys. Prior to the rule adoption allowing stocking over Class A populations, these streams were not stocked. Due to political pressure, the Executive Director can permit stocking in Class A waters and generally, this is being done in the waters were a cessation of stocking would probably release a firestorm on the PFBC.

I don't know why so many new waters are showing up on the list based on old data. Maybe someone went back and re-evaluated old survey data recently. Maybe there was a paperwork snafu. Maybe Glade was doing some light reading one night and realized these streams were missed. Getting them posted on the list to be considered is one thing, but they often languish there too, so hopefully, every stream, old and new, that is on the list is officially afforded the status that is due. The cynic side in me says - "Who needs an unassessed waters initiative - how about assessing your old survey data instead?".

And regarding tiny streams attaining Class A status - it is still a good thing for a watershed, regardless if they are fishable or not. They receive increased environmental protection, and presumably any stream that they flow into are beneficiaries of that, as well as whatever nursery/sanctuary they might provide.
 
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