Loop to Loop alternatives ( leader to fly line)

[timmyt2]

1. 3 or 4 turn clinch right to the loop in the fly line with the end of the leader

2. Cut loop from fly line, nail knot mono on end of fly line. But then i am rechopping the end of my fly line periodically, i don't care for that option. So i could tie a tippet ring on the end of the mono and tie leaders to tippet ring and not have to chop and retie mono to fly line, theoretically.

These are the 2 neat options i found searching around a bit. I would love to hear about others solutions for this issue, thanks!!

 

[tomgamber]

Nothing easier than a loop to loop. Curious what your aversion to it would be. That'd help with alternative methods.

 

[krayfish2]

Yeah, loop to loop or clinch to the line/leader connector loop is how I do it.

 

[timmyt2]

I'm looking to improve my casting skills and getting into hand tying leaders a bit. In the process of reading it seemed like a lot info said it was a bad transfer of energy at the end of the cast, harder when fishing dries because of plop down, etc. I figured i would give it a try i never have

Also somtimes i am wading and fishing a pretty long leader and need to get that connection in the guides a bit to land a fish and that is a pain. I am aware of it so not a lot of problems thankfully but it would be nice not to think about too.

Thx guys

 

[afishinado]

Just sayin' but a clinch knot tied to the loop would equate to being a hinge, making laying out your leader difficult. When I worked in the fly shop I changed over that connection for many FFers and it seemed to help turnover.

 

[redietz]

timmyt2 wrote:
Also somtimes i am wading and fishing a pretty long leader and need to get that connection in the guides a bit to land a fish and that is a pain. I am aware of it so not a lot of problems thankfully but it would be nice not to think about too.

If you find this to be a problem, a better solution is nail knot (or even better needle knot) a short section of heavy mono to your line, put a loop in the other end of it and attach your leader to that with a loop to loop connection -- it will go through the guides a lot easier than a loop to loop directly to the line.

Something I did before lines came with loops already installed was to strip a few inches of the coating from the end of the line, leaving just the nylon core. I'd then tie a loop in that core, and coat it with Pliobond. Using the loop to loop with the leader makes a connection that passes easily through guides.

In the course of a day of fishing, I might change leaders two or three time, for example when going from fishing a dry fly to fishing a streamer, or changing to poly leader with a different sink rate. It makes no sense to me to use anything other than a loop to loop connection to attach the leader.

 

[dryflyguy]

I've been using loop connections almost from the get go, with no problems.

Back then, fly lines didn't come with a built in loop
I used the chinese finger braided loop connectors.
Put them on with the provided heat shrink tube.
And a drop of aqua seal as an extra bond.
Never had one come off.

I have a buddy who has fished out west with guides out west.
And he told me that every one of them who looked at his gear and saw his loop connecters - told him to cut them off, and use a nail knot.
Never told me if they ever said why though.

 

[Canoetripper]

I am trying to simplify what I do fly fishing so there is no need to overly complicate the loop to loop that already works.

My basic knot tying works good enough. I will work on something else when I become a better fly caster.

I am signing up for better fly casting lessons. At this point in my quest/goal to just get better at fly fishing/casting, I think that I am good enough with well tied trilene, clinch, and limited-slip knots.

I am content with the loop to loop connection right now since my fly casting is the known weak link.

I really haven't mastered the various surgeons knots either since it is easier for me to deal with tippet rings.

 

[Bamboozle]

A couple of thoughts:

A clinch knot to the loop will eventually cut through the coating in the line and ruin the loop.

Energy transfer is more about your casting and line speed than your leader. Though the decades while drinking and listening to theories on energy transfer and hinging; I’ve used stiff butt leaders, flat mono soft butt leaders, braided butt leaders, leader loops, poly butt leaders and furled leaders.

Back when everyone used stiff butt leaders, they told you something soft would hinge and not transfer energy correctly. However, all of these various types of leader butts cast fine for me when I adjust the leader length or adjust to conditions, fly size & type.

I guess that means I don’t understand the hinging thing…

Before line loops or the add-on leader loops, I used to nail or needle knot some heavy stiff mono to the end of my line, leave it about 8” – 12” long and tie a SMALL Perfection loop in the end. I also tied my own leaders and put a Perfection loop on the end. When I tied my leaders, I would reduce the length of the butt section in the formula to compensate for the additional butt material on the end of my line. I then attached my leaders, loop-to-loop to that which meant I never had to cut any of that piece of butt section on the end of my line.

Another thing: I’m not implying this is what you are doing, but I have seen MANY times where someone THINKS they are doing a loop-to-loop connection, but in fact they are “cow hitching” one loop to the other so the loops don’t wrap around each other and compress. Make sure your loop-to-loop connection looks like this.

I love line loops because all of my leaders have loops on the end so I can easily switch leaders as needed. I have no problems with them. I never had problems with the leader loops either. I find things hang up no more or less than they do with blood knots. The trick is to be aware when the knots are in your guides and lower the rod tip, even slightly to reduce the friction if a fish bolts.

Reels have drag for a reason...

Finally, if you have a Perfection loop or any other loop on the end of your leader, once you are sure it is secure, trim the tag flush and use a little UV Knot Sense on it or you can use a couple of coats of a contact cement like Pliobond like we did when Theodore Gordon was still poking around the Brodhead. It helps a LOT with hang-ups in the guides.

Good luck!

 

[Fly-Swatter]

FWIW, I do pretty much what Bam outlined, including coating the knots. UV is so much better than pliobond. It's worked very well for me for about 40 years, including over two dozen false albacore on the outer banks. THose fish will blow a rod up if the knot gets caught wrong in your guides with their 30 mph 100 yard runs!

Nail knot some Maxima (don't say it 3x) of the appropriate size. Cut it off at around a foot. Perfection loop. Coat both knots. It works.

In other words, what Bam said.

 

[timmyt2]

I appreciate the input from everyone

Clinch knotting to the welded loop in the line with the leader was something i had never heard of to be honest. I was searching around and found that on troutbitten. The more i think about it i don't think its a good option for me but different strokes

Perhaps I am creating a problem where one doesn't exist. I have always used loop to loops in 15 years of ff'ing and i love the ability to change them out like the rest of you are saying.

At this point i am deciding between sticking with the welded loop in the line or cutting it off and creating a loop from a nail knotted piece of mono. I'm not sure i have much to gain by doing that. I think i will just keep the welded and try to make a smaller perfection loop in the end of the leader. I am still using store bought tapered mono leaders but could always cut those loops off and tie a smaller one myself

 

[dryflyguy]

I think the welded loops are better than anything that can be added on.

 

[Bamboozle]

timmyt2 wrote:
I think i will just keep the welded and try to make a smaller perfection loop in the end of the leader. I am still using store bought tapered mono leaders but could always cut those loops off and tie a smaller one myself

Most store bought leaders have a loop almost double the size I tie on my own leaders.

Even though a Perfection loop is a bit awkward to tie, it's not hard to coax a small loop once you get the hang of it. I have an old tapered X-Acto handle I place inside of the loop so I can tighten the knot and gauge it's size before I do. Anything similar will work just as well.

 

[bigjohn58]

I will use nothing but a nail knot. I've never had one fail. I usually tie a new one on the end of my line at the beginning of the season and it usually lasts me the entire year.

 

[timmyt2]

What are you guys doing on the backing end? I have always done an albright knot to the backing but i guess this end is set up for loop to loop now also

 

[Fly-Swatter]

I tie a loop knot with a big loop so I can fit my reel through it. This connects to a whipped loop on the back end of my fly line.

 

[timmyt2]

When u say whipped loop on the fly line you mean the welded loop that comes on there?

Good call on the loop in the backing being big enough to fit the reel thru

 

[afishinado]

timmyt2 wrote:
What are you guys doing on the backing end? I have always done an albright knot to the backing but i guess this end is set up for loop to loop now also

A bimini twist loop on the end of your backing works best. It's bomb proof, plus it allays you to easily change our your fly line without tying or retying any knots.

I tied what seems like a thousand of them when working in the fly shop. It takes some practice but it's worth your time. The video below shows you how tie it using an anchor post. Some guys simply use their foot instead of a post.

 

[timmyt2]

That bimini knot looks a little complicated...is there an advantage to that over just using a loop to loop like Fly Swatter described?

 

[afishinado]

timmyt2 wrote:
That bimini knot looks a little complicated...is there an advantage to that over just using a loop to loop like Fly Swatter described?

Bimini also a loop knot leaving a large loop like Fly Swatter described in his post above. The bimini twist is the knot used by saltwater anglers because of it's strength. Tying a loop knot accomplishes the same thing. Just test out your knot, and if you're satisfied it will hold...you're good to go.