Little Valley Creek - Chesterbrook PA

[dubthethorax]

Hey everyone,
I'm well versed on Valley Creek in the park. I've fished it dozens of times over the years. However, I just got a job in Chesterbrook, just south of the park, and Little Valley Creek, which is a trib to valley, runs right behind my work. It's a really small creek, but from what I've read online, it also contains brown trout.

Just curious. Has anyone else fished it? Is it worth my time to bother or should I just drive a few miles and fish Valley?

 

[lestrout]

Yo dub - congrats on landing a job in C'brook. Little Valley has plenty of wild browns, as it has recovered from the chlorinated water spill several years ago. It is smaller water and a lot of it is posted. When the water is higher, it can be ffished like a mountain brookie stream. At lower water levels, there are just a few pools that work for ffishing.

 

[Mike]

Little Valley held some unusually large browns (18”) for a smaller stream back in the late 1970’s and early 1980’s. Biomass was very high, as high as some of the best in Pa. Since that time, however, stormwater runoff has degraded the habitat and while the biomass was still fairly good during the last survey as I recall, the fish were small, commensurate with the degraded habitat ( now displays a lack of big size and moderate size fish habitat). Pay attention to the section limits. The lower section, Section 02 I believe, holds the wild trout.

As an aside, around 1977 it was a better stream for wild trout than Valley. Valley essentially had NO wild trout due heavy sedimentation at that time. Only three or so stocked trout were captured in the 1977 survey at two or three sites (3 I think). By about 1982 the wild trout population was achieving a Class A biomass at one site in the park and Class B or C at two other sites, all within the traditionally stocked stretch while stocking was still occurring. It was NOT cessation of stocking that brought on the Class A population and its recovery throughout; it was substantial sediment pollution reduction. The population was already well on its way to recovery when stocking was discontinued, which is contrary to the angler lore that I have heard over the yrs.

 

[dubthethorax]

Thanks guys. I'm gonna grab a 2 weight and give it a go one day on my lunch break. Will report back

 

[moon1284]

I fished it once back in 2009 or 2010. I didn't catch anything but I remember spooking several nice sized browns.

 

[AndyP]

Mike - As a long time Valley Creek visitor I would like to think that the ending of stocking over the wild fish population was a good thing.... along with the reduction in sedimentation !!

 

[Mike]

As the one who was managing the fishery when stocking ceased, my review above was not a negative comment about cessation of stocking. In fact, at that time I would have been the first to remove a Class A section from the stocking program. Nevertheless, Valley was well on its way to achieving Class A status duringmthe recovery that took place while it was being stocked. We’re talking about a stream that went from zero wild trout to Class A equivalent at the most accessible site (for fishing and stocking) in a 5-6 yr period. Given that rapid pace of recovery, this was not a population that was being hampered by stocking. In fact, it is quite possible that holdover BT reproduction provided the initial and ongoing (at that time) push to get the population going. I don’t see any “ands” about it though. This population recovered with such rapidity due to greatly reduced sedimentation, not because stocking was stopped well into the recovery phase.

 

[sarce]

As a teenager I somehow managed to land an 18" brown in there, this was probably 2007ish. I went back to the same section about two years ago and the habitat looked pretty awful compared to what I remembered but it still held a few average 8-10" browns. Given the massive shopping center on the headwaters it's amazing it still has any trout. It's worth poking around but keep expectations modest.

 

[sarce]

As the one who was managing the fishery when stocking ceased, my review above was not a negative comment about cessation of stocking. In fact, at that time I would have been the first to remove a Class A section from the stocking program. Nevertheless, Valley was well on its way to achieving Class A status duringmthe recovery that took place while it was being stocked. We’re talking about a stream that went from zero wild trout to Class A equivalent at the most accessible site (for fishing and stocking) in a 5-6 yr period. Given that rapid pace of recovery, this was not a population that was being hampered by stocking. In fact, it is quite possible that holdover BT reproduction provided the initial and ongoing (at that time) push to get the population going. I don’t see any “ands” about it though. This population recovered with such rapidity due to greatly reduced sedimentation, not because stocking was stopped well into the recovery phase.

Mike - what happened during that time to reduce sediment? Was it an active effort or just land use changing organically?

 

[pcray1231]

In fact, it is quite possible that holdover BT reproduction provided the initial and ongoing (at that time) push to get the population going. I don’t see any “ands” about it though. This population recovered with such rapidity due to greatly reduced sedimentation, not because stocking was stopped well into the recovery phase.

A good friend fished the upper end and tribs of Valley OFTEN in the 60's and says it had tons of small wild brown trout. When I say upper end, I'm talking close to Exton, but not the southwestard flowing "other" Valley Creek that's a trib to the Brandywine. The "correct" Valley Creek, upstream of Ecology Park. The north branch that goes by Great Valley High School and the southern branch that goes right through Chester Valley Golf Club (which is loaded with small browns, btw). The golf club is where he worked in his youth and he fished on the property. I've seen sepia toned ancient pictures of 6" wild browns with golf holes in the background he claims is there.

I wasn't alive then to personally verify, it's 2nd hand info, but I believe it always harbored wild browns.

I say that not to diminish anything you said about stocking or sedimentation. But regardless of how good it actually was, I'm confident feedstock existed in the stream to seed the population.

 

[lestrout]

Yo Pat - good addition to the knowledge base. That wild brown dispersion matches well with the beliefs of many of the VFTU old timers, including ones that grew up in the watershed itself. I'll check with Joe Armstrong, who wrote the book (literally) on spring creeks in PA. He loves the blue liners and doesn't mind crawling on his knees through the underbrush to get at the trouts. This despite the fact that he has caught trouts in every continent in the world (except Antarctica) - yes including several places in Africa.

I like to think the genetics of the Loch Leven and forelle browns from over a century ago make for more robustness (as in making it through bad weathers and knowing how to produce babies) than the current engineered crops coming out of the hatcheries. While the PB&C product is much better, in looks as well as size and performance) than a decade ago, I'm not sure if they are overly fertile. Our MikeK I am sure has direct knowledge and understanding of these matters, but I have good pals who are good (or think they are good) at reading the spots, etc. on the trouts to dtermine their heritage.

 

[dubthethorax]

Wow, lots of history here! I still have yet to fish it. Was pretty high and murky the other day when I checked it.

 

[Mike]

My intent was not to suggest that no wild trout from Ltl Valley or perhaps from the Valley Ck headwaters (if wild trout were present there as has now been suggested) could have contributed to the development or rebirth of the wild trout population in the Valley Ck stocked section, but what I was saying was that no wild trout were found in the stocked section survey of 1976 or 1977 and that only 2-3 stocked trout were found in either two or three, probably three, 300 m or longer sampling sites in the stocked section. It doesn’t seem based on that survey or on a later survey in the early 1980’s somewhere between Rt 29 and Conestoga Rd (recalling a small, brick, I believe, sewage or water pump station building at the site) that wild trout reported in this thread as being in the headwaters were contributing much to the Valley Ck stocked section. In fact, in the pump station site, located I think less than a mile upstream from the stocked section, there were no wild trout while there were good numbers downstream by Rt 29. Their absence was apparently a water temp problem and I don’t know how far upstream toward the headwaters that problem extended at the time. We did not investigate that.

As for the potential for PFBC stocked Brown Trout to successfully reproduce and create a wild trout population, there is no doubt that it can occur. One need only look to the Codorus Ck, converted from a warmwater stream to a coldwater stream by the Marburg discharge, to see that.

 

[AndyP]

Mike - You have so much information to share..... I just want to say thank you. I love hearing some of the more historical info about Valley and other streams.

 

[shadspoon]

Little Valley has been destroyed by the storm water the last 5 years or so. It gets all the water from Malvern Hills (King Rd) West almost to Route 352. Unfortunately the development continues unchecked. There are still some trout in pockets here and there. It does get fished regularly so it is no secret. Just very few fish. PeteL

 

[Nymph-wristed]

Little Valley has been destroyed by the storm water the last 5 years or so. It gets all the water from Malvern Hills (King Rd) West almost to Route 352. Unfortunately the development continues unchecked. There are still some trout in pockets here and there. It does get fished regularly so it is no secret. Just very few fish. PeteL

+ 1 No secret to those who fish Valley, and very impacted by the last few storms.

 

[Paul Barci]

As a teenager I somehow managed to land an 18" brown in there, this was probably 2007ish. I went back to the same section about two years ago and the habitat looked pretty awful compared to what I remembered but it still held a few average 8-10" browns. Given the massive shopping center on the headwaters it's amazing it still has any trout. It's worth poking around but keep expectations modest.

I think I had started fishing Valley on occasion probably in the late 70's
I would only fish there on rare trips up until this year.
I can say that there are plenty of fish and large fish.
This is an 18" fish caught in early October on a #18 WD-40 brown

 

[sarce]

I think I had started fishing Valley on occasion probably in the late 70's
I would only fish there on rare trips up until this year.
I can say that there are plenty of fish and large fish.
This is an 18" fish caught in early October on a #18 WD-40 brown

That is a gorgeous fish. Has the crisp red edges you'd expect in that watershed. You mention Valley, but thread is about Little Valley, are you saying Little Valley is that good? If so expect some spot burning comments incoming... lol

 

[Paul Barci]

That is a gorgeous fish. Has the crisp red edges you'd expect in that watershed. You mention Valley, but thread is about Little Valley, are you saying Little Valley is that good? If so expect some spot burning comments incoming... lol

I have not ventured up to little valley mainly because of access or my knowledge of how to access it

 

[TPrettyman]

As the one who was managing the fishery when stocking ceased, my review above was not a negative comment about cessation of stocking. In fact, at that time I would have been the first to remove a Class A section from the stocking program. Nevertheless, Valley was well on its way to achieving Class A status duringmthe recovery that took place while it was being stocked. We’re talking about a stream that went from zero wild trout to Class A equivalent at the most accessible site (for fishing and stocking) in a 5-6 yr period. Given that rapid pace of recovery, this was not a population that was being hampered by stocking. In fact, it is quite possible that holdover BT reproduction provided the initial and ongoing (at that time) push to get the population going. I don’t see any “ands” about it though. This population recovered with such rapidity due to greatly reduced sedimentation, not because stocking was stopped well into the recovery phase.

Hey Mike, have been seeing your posts on here a really long time since I moved to PA a few years ago.
Can holdover stocked trout spawn and create a successful biomass in PA? Always been curious about this as I live on French Creek, on one of the FFO sections, and I see hold overs as late as November.