Little Juniata POSTED signs

[ryanpgh]

Got some bad news to report. I'm being told the J is now all posted up above Spruce. Anyone know anything?

 

[LetortAngler]

Well the good news is that this is only partially true. Upstream from Spruce is not posted. The only posted section is the Yellow House parking lot. This has always been on and off posted by the landowners. I also contacted Spruce Creek Outfitters to confirm.
On a side note, a friend of mine stopped by the J yesterday and got low 70s temp reading, and also a 70 degree reading on Spruce. At those temps fishing should be found elsewhere until it cools down, or a morning and evening jaunt.

 

[nymphingmaniac]

Yes. Rather than recant here visit the LJRA website and check out the forum , the posts on the home page and the August minutes.

 

[nymphingmaniac]

The woman who owns the land owns from the spruce creek trestle to the junkyard at river and shovel works road. This is the first time it has been posted to any form trespassing, including fishing. A year ago she posted the area to no swimming or tubing- fishing was allowed. This is unprecedented. Turkey hunting has been forbidden ever since I remember.

 

[dryflyguy]

That's too bad!
There are some very nice holes in that stretch of river

 

[nymphingmaniac]

oops recount- autocorrect bit me in the a**

 

[DaveS]

This is unfortunate indeed. Its a significant section of river lost due to lack of respect for others. Hopefully the LJRA can mend this fence for all of us in the future.

 

[NewSal]

How can she post "no swimming or tubing"? The little Juniata is a navigable waterway, she only owns the land you just cant park there anymore, you can still fish through that section as long as you stay in the stream correct? Isnt this what the lawsuit was all about years ago that we the people and Mr Bright won?

 

[HopBack]

How can she post "no swimming or tubing"? The little Juniata is a navigable waterway, she only owns the land you just cant park there anymore, you can still fish through that section as long as you stay in the stream correct? Isnt this what the lawsuit was all about years ago that we the people and Mr Bright won?

According to the ruling, the river up to the low water mark is owned by the commonwealth of PA and may be used for public activities.

The ruling also states that landowners may NOT hang posting to prevent people from tubing, boating, fishing, ect.


Just find a legal access point and fish on!

 

[nymphingmaniac]

yes, kind of hard to stop them from doing these things in the river. she was determined to keep them from accessing the river from her property or getting out onto her land. The posting was prompted by bad behavior from the tubers and the smart mouths they had when she asked them to discontinue the behavior (not to cease the tubing/swimming, just what they were doing, littering and foul language I believe).
She ultimately removed those signs, and may do the same here as long as people respect her wishes not to trespass or park on her land (parking lot and the lone pullout by shovel works road interaction at the junkyard). She owns the land on the other side of the road across from the house, so no sneaking in there.
Please keep in mind seeing other cars near the yellowhouse is not a signal its all ok. She has family members who have permission to be there.
The quickest way to see those signs disappear is to respect her wishes while they are up. The LJRA is working to accelerate the process.

 

[nymphingmaniac]

good luck finding that access point. Its a long walk from the spruce creek trestle or the junkyard to the primer water. In the spring, some locations are nearly impassable.
The other side is owned by the RR and they are real serious these days about enforcing the no trespassing rules.

 

[Mike_Emanuele]

I was never quite sure on the legality of parking near the house and walking in that way. It was always clearly posted in that small section yet I would see others always walk in.. Only good that will come out of this is keeping guys off the river with these awful temps. (I was the one who ryanpgh and letort angler mentioned being at the river) The temps are far from fishable and the flow rates are very bad. Hopefully people will learn from this posting.

 

[Mariner]

HopBack: I think it's high water mark, no?

 

[HopBack]

Here is the ruling. The land on the river at the ordinary low mark is owned by the commonwealth. It looks like there is a public easement between the low and high water marks.

 

[Shaner]

How much of a navigable waterway does the Commonwealth own?
When it comes to navigable waters, Pennsylvania courts have said that the Commonwealth’s ownership extends to the ordinary low water mark, and the adjacent riparian landowner owns above the ordinary high water mark. An easement exists in favor of public between the high and low water marks. That easement includes the right to fish.

The courts have defined the low water mark in this context as the height of water at ordinary stages of low water unaffected by drought and unchanged by artificial means. The best advice is to tell the public to stay as close to the water as possible or if they want to be safe to stay in the water. If they don’t venture on to upland properties, they’ll be OK. The fact that a waterway is deemed navigable does not give the public unfettered access to people's riparian lands nor permission to trespass in order to gain access to a waterway.

 

[troutbert]

Shaner wrote:
How much of a navigable waterway does the Commonwealth own?
When it comes to navigable waters, Pennsylvania courts have said that the Commonwealth’s ownership extends to the ordinary low water mark, and the adjacent riparian landowner owns above the ordinary high water mark. An easement exists in favor of public between the high and low water marks. That easement includes the right to fish.

The courts have defined the low water mark in this context as the height of water at ordinary stages of low water unaffected by drought and unchanged by artificial means. The best advice is to tell the public to stay as close to the water as possible or if they want to be safe to stay in the water. If they don’t venture on to upland properties, they’ll be OK. The fact that a waterway is deemed navigable does not give the public unfettered access to people's riparian lands nor permission to trespass in order to gain access to a waterway.

On navigable rivers the public has the right of access within the mean annual high water mark.

This is essentially top of bank. It's the break in slope that is the boundary between the floodplain and the channel.

You have the right of access within the channel of the river.

You do not have the right of access to the floodplain adjoining the river.

The channel is a trough, a groove carved into the floodplain by the river's flow.

You do not have to keep your feet wet. You do have to stay inside the channel.

 

[Troy]

This sucks. One of my favorite stretches. The lack of respect in this world is mind boggling. Thanks Ljra for everything you do!

 

[Mucka]

Who wants to define navigable again for me? I know I've read it on here numerous times...

 

[Swattie87]

Mucka wrote:
Who wants to define navigable again for me? I know I've read it on here numerous times...

I think pcray is on vacation or something. Haven't seen him post in a while.

 

[afishinado]

Mucka wrote:
Who wants to define navigable again for me? I know I've read it on here numerous times...

http://fishandboat.com/water/public/faq_public_waters.htm