Leaders, leaders, and leaders

[Canoetripper]

I am ready to take my next step with my fly fishing, and that is specifically with which leaders I can cast the best. I(all of us) already know what I can do with knotless tapered leaders. I have ordered and received both knotted and furled leaders.

Fellow board member, wbranch, has agreed to critique and assist/improve in my basic fly casting improvement once we can finally meet some where and fish.

I have taken two fly casting lessons so I don't think that I am too far away from being much better improved. I was just never properly taught and have a lot of bad habits after many years.

 

[Bamboozle]

Matching your leader to what you are casting is more important than how the leader is constructed.

• Big, wind resistant and/or heavy flies cast much better on shorter stouter leaders with heavier tippets.

• Leaders longer than 9 - 10 foot can give someone who has "a lot of bad habits" headaches.

You would be surprised how your casting & presentation improve by just keeping those two things in mind.

 

[troutpoop]

Enjoy your journey to find the leader set up best for you and your casting and fishing style. I fish dries about 95% of the time and prefer silk furled leaders. That's for me and I'm comfortable.
The people I fish with tie their own and fish as good or better than me. There isn't a best leader. It's casting style, fishing style, rod preferences and comfort dependent. My 2 cents.

 

[Canoetripper]

I should have posted that what I do most of the time is fish wooly buggers. I have a rod vault(4 fly rods) and I can easily next change to drifting wet flies. The next rod up is my euro nymph rod(I know that those leaders are different and specific).

I then go to an indicator/suspender/nymph, which is something that I can easily see and floats well like a humpy on top and a small nymph underneath.

It is the first two up above that I fish the most.

I love dry fly fishing and who doesn't? On all of my canoe trips, nothing has been more reliable and fun than a 3" silver/black floating Rapala.

 

[dryflyguy]

When I first started out, I bought knotless leaders.
And I got by with them OK.

Then a friend gave me one of his own George Harvey formula knotted leaders.
And I was pretty impressed by how much better it turned a dry fly over.
So I started tying my own - and been doing so ever since

 

[Canoetripper]

I bought the knotted leaders from Murray's Fly Shop in Virginia and the furled leaders from the Fly Shack in Gloversville, NY. I am ready to fish with them and see how well they perform.

 

[Acristickid]

Made some Kelly Galluop leaders for streamers years ago. 3 feet of 25 or 20 pound maxima then your 2-3 feet of 15 pound tippet if I recall right. Anyway, agree with Harvey slack leaders. I’m so lazy/uncomplicated that most of the time I end up with the tapered leader but no doubt many times I wished I spent the 10 minutes and made some of my own.

 

[Bamboozle]

I should have posted that what I do most of the time is fish wooly buggers. I have a rod vault(4 fly rods) and I can easily next change to drifting wet flies. The next rod up is my euro nymph rod(I know that those leaders are different and specific).

I then go to an indicator/suspender/nymph, which is something that I can easily see and floats well like a humpy on top and a small nymph underneath.

It is the first two up above that I fish the most.

I love dry fly fishing and who doesn't? On all of my canoe trips, nothing has been more reliable and fun than a 3" silver/black floating Rapala.

First, I like loops on the end of my fly lines so I can swap leaders easily. With that in mind if I was fishing a Wooly Bugger, most often I'm using a 5 - 7 foot knotted leader with a 3X or stouter tippet.

I don't do the Euro nymph thing so that's easy...

Basic nymph or wet fly fishing is most often done on a 7 foot knotted leader with 3X or 4X.

If I'm going to switch to a dry/dropper set-up it's a longer leader which could be furled if the dry fly is small or knotted if it's not with the nymph on a heavier tippet than the dry.

For dry flies is a LONG furled leader or woven silk leader with a tippet matched to the fly size.

Small stream fishing I'm using similar leader set-ups that are about 5 feet long.

Bottom line, one size (or leader) doesn't fit all situations, at least for me.

If I tried to use the same leader for every fly or combo, I would also be questioning my casting ability, the rod, the line, the leader type or something else...

...just sayin'.

 

[Billems]

Leaders: the endless subject. Many fisherfolk buy simple knotless leaders and make adjustments with various tippet diameters and lengths. However, the very best fly fishermen I know tie their own knotted leaders. For me, who fishes mainly dries and soft hackle wets, the George Harvey "slack leader" formulas all me to delay drag, and increases my chances of a take. Furled are good, too. No easy answer. But, like the rest of us, you have the rest of your life to hone your own personal system and style in leader selection.

 

[afishinado]

Leaders: the endless subject. Many fisherfolk buy simple knotless leaders and make adjustments with various tippet diameters and lengths. However, the very best fly fishermen I know tie their own knotted leaders. For me, who fishes mainly dries and soft hackle wets, the George Harvey "slack leader" formulas all me to delay drag, and increases my chances of a take. Furled are good, too. No easy answer. But, like the rest of us, you have the rest of your life to hone your own personal system and style in leader selection.

I furl (actually "twist up") my own custom leaders.

Some FFers use the store-bought tapers leaders, which is fine, while others get into knotting or furling their own custom leaders.

The same for flies and fly tying, some buy flies while others labor over tying all types of flies for their fishing.

Some guys buy their rods from a big-box store, while others craft their own custom rods to fish.

Some study hatch charts and get into entomology, while others just fish green weenies and squirmy wormies to catch fish.

The great thing about FFing is you can enjoy the sport at any level.

Keep it simple and catch some fish, or immerse yourself into the many aspects of the sport.

Whichever way you choose, the most important thing is to have fun fishin'.....

 

[Billems]

I furl (actually "twist up") my own custom leaders.

Some FFers use the store-bought tapers leaders, which is fine, while others get into knotting or furling their own custom leaders.

The same for flies and fly tying, some buy flies while others labor over tying all types of flies for their fishing.

Some guys buy their rods from a big-box store, while others craft their own custom rods to fish.

Some study hatch charts and get into entomology, while others just fish green weenies and squirmy wormies to catch fish.

The great thing about FFing is you can enjoy the sport at any level.

Keep it simple and catch some fish, or immerse yourself into the many aspects of the sport.

Whichever way you choose, the most important thing is to have fun fishin'.....

Yeah. The whole thing is a lifetime adventure. Let's just hope the global warming will abate, or it's over for trouting.

 

[Bamboozle]

I got six inches of snow in my driveway and it's 29 degrees, but who's paying attention...

 

[Billems]

I got six inches of snow in my driveway and it's 29 degrees, but who's paying attention...

It's -6 here in St. Paul. You ought go out and sunbathe!

 

[scottywest6]

I will second (or third or whatever lol) a vote for using furled leaders for both dries and (smaller) nymphs. They turn over beautifully and with authority and they pick up easily. Not the best in really cold weather as they can ice up. The other one I swear by are hand tied fluorocarbon leaders tied by Chris Mihulka out in Oregon (he's on eBay). They are fantastic leaders using top shelf Dupont fluorocarbon material and they're a steal at $14.99 for a package of five which you can get in a variety of lengths and tippet sizes. I use those for dries and nymphing and don't let anyone tell you that you can't fish dries with fluoro cuz that's bullpucky 😂. I've used his 14 footer tapered to 7X with size 22 Trico spinners on the Cumberland Valley limestoners and they lay out great and float just fine and I'm convinced that they offer more stealth than nylon.

 

[pcray1231]

I have been "interested" in furled leaders, but yet to give it a go. I am so engrained with making my own knotted leaders.

Waaaaayyyy back, early in my switch to fly fishing, I switched from knotless tapered leaders to tying my own by getting a Maxima Chameleon leader tying kit at FFP. That was, by far, my single biggest leap in fly fishing ability. My own leaders were night and day better. I like a stiff (Maxima) butt and taper with a sudden switch to as soft a material as I can find on the business end.

For the most part, I use the formulas in Joe Humphrey's Trout Tactics for dry flies, tight brush, streamers, and wets, and play with the tippet length constantly. For nymphing, if I'm expecting a hatch later I'll just add tippet to a dry fly leader to ease the changover later, but if it's an expected all day nymphing affair from the get go, I'll just do like 9 feet of flat 2x with a foot or two of tippet on the end, kind of half arsed euro style.

I'll mention that I make a set of new leaders each winter, but a leader typically lasts like a year. By the end of the year, it no longer resembles what it started as... Winter is re-tool and start over "right" again time.

 

[Bamboozle]

I have been "interested" in furled leaders, but yet to give it a go. I am so engrained with making my own knotted leaders...

Just make sure if you try furled leaders that you try versions made of thread as well as mono or fluoro before passing judgement.

In my DRY fly leader progression I went from knot-less to knotted to knotted made with flat mono in the butt, remember those? Flat butt mono was more supple which was supposed to give you better turnover, however they disappeared from the fly shops rather quickly.

Then I tried braided woven butt (I still like these) and braided fused butt (Orvis sold these and they were great) and then I tried Poly butt leaders and hollow mono butt leaders which floated pretty well when greased.

Later I jumped on the furled leader bandwagon, first with a mono furled leader (which I HATED) and finally a thread furled leader and now I am also using woven silk blend leaders made by silk fly line maker Terenzio Zandri in Italy that are similar in performance, but I like them better than furled thread.

So I guess you could say I tried them all...

My suggestion to try both types of furled leaders before passing judgement comes from my horrible experience with mono-versions which twist up like nobody’s business if they suddenly pull free from a snag or if you pull them through pinched fingers like you would when inspecting your fly or applying floatant.

I realize some folks like mono or fluoro furled leaders for subsurface fishing, but I still prefer knotted leaders for that & warmwater fishing of any kind.

Thread furled leaders are much more relaxed and don’t suffer nearly as much from twisting issues as mono or fluoro versions. Because of that, I also switched to them for my small stream fishing where snags abound. I am using a 3 foot thread furled leader with 2-3 feet of tippet for great rod loading in close.

Bottom line, if I made my decision on furled leaders after using a mono version I would have decided they weren't for me. YMMV but try both or just skip the non-thread types.

 

[tomgamber]

A long time ago I used braided nylon leaders. I don't remember if they were Orvis or Cortland. thinking of my monetary situation at the time i'm inclined to think they might have been Cortland. aaannnyway...i liked them. Never got tanged and all I had to worry about was tippet. Not sure why I stopped. I probably let someone talk me out of them or maybe I couldn't find them. I see Orvis still makes them. I might try them or the furled leaders soon.

 

[moon1284]

I'm in the homemade knotted, Harvey style leader camp. I fish the upper delaware most of the time. My leaders are usually around 12 or 13 feet. Maxima Chameleon for the first couple butt section then ultragreen the rest of the way.

I really don't measure anymore I just start tying line together. I think I usually go 25, 15, 12, 10, 8, 6, 4. For smaller flies I'll go to 3. Bigger flies I'll replace the 4 with 5. I'm talking maxima # test.

For streamers it's usually 20, 12, 8 and much shorter (8 or 9 feet), even shorter on a sink tip (6 feet or so 12 then 8).

For nymphing I grab someone else's rig. I prefer not to defile my own gear or leaders by attaching nymphs to them!

 

[DomR]

I switched to thread furled leaders around half a dozen years ago. 6' long then add another 3' to 6' tippet depending upon whether I'm fishing dries or wets. No issues on my end, works good for me cause I like to change flies and don't like to tie surgeons knots to replace depleted tippet.

 

[Canoetripper]

I now have both a 2X and 3X tippet size leader from Murray's Fly Shop in Edinburg, Virginia.

I will probably modify with tippet rings, and then experiment with fluorocarbon and mono tippets.

Harry told me not to worry about the red color of the leaders, which I won't.

I know exactly what I can and can't do with the everyday basic knotless tapered leader. It is now time to figure out what I can improve upon casting both knotted and furled leaders