Kenyan Tied Flies

[Phlsphyguy]

How can a U.S. based commercial tyer compete with the quality and prices of offshore tying companies? I've seen several from Kenya offering flies for about $2.60 a dozen (less import, duty, shipping). Does Cabeyas and Orvis use U.S. based tyers? Just curious if U.S. based commercial tying is on a downswing with cheap competition as their foe.

 

[sandfly]

Its been down for years. We can not compete at those prices. I buy some flys from a source who gets them from there. They do tie the best from any other place. I have a stock of over 3,000 flys its hard to keep up with. Cabelas, orvis, bass pro, all buy over seas. Are you looking for a job tying ????

 

[Phlsphyguy]

Sandfly....not looking for any tying orders-although I would tie for friends who needed flies. I was just curious about U.S. fly tying after a trip to Cabeyas and saw the quality of the flies and figuring they get them overseas.

On another note, I live in the Lehigh Valley and there isn't one dedicated fly shop here anymore. The last one was The Little Lehigh Fly Shop which closed in Dec. 2010. It bothers me when another business closes. Personally, I never really got along with Rod, the owner(a little too gruff for me), but it still is sad knowing he closed. I know he tied all the flies he had for sale. .

 

[sandfly]

Its tough to compete with the big guys. every one goes there and not the local shops any more, or they don't call and say do you have this and how much ??? I've been thinking real hard on expanding here. No business why should I go larger. would like to expand the web site so I can sell more there but that cost too...So for now I am staying small.

 

[Heritage-Angler]

Phlsphyguy wrote:
I know he tied all the flies he had for sale. .

He told you that, did he? :lol:

Most of his flies, other than Al's Rat, and the honeybug inchworm, were tied by Stan Cooper. You can still get them (including the Rat) from the Evening Hatch Fly Shop, since Stan still ties for them.

 

[troutbert]

The majority of flies sold in this country were tied overseas. But you can still find USA (and PA) tied flies.

Flyfishers Paradise still has local tied flies, except for a few bass and saltwater patterns.

Slate Run Tackle has a lot of local tied flies.

Spruce Creek Outfitters, too.

Maybe other people can point out other shops that have a lot of local tied flies.

 

[Phlsphyguy]

He never told me that he did. I always assumed he did since everytime I saw him he was tying flies.

I tie my own, but like to peruse a fly shop every now and then for supplies rather than buy through the internet. The closest shop for me is Angler's Pro in Souderton and the Reading shops. When Cabeyas moved in we lost a few shops in the area: Pro-Am, Clemens, Gateway Outfitters and most recently, Little Lehigh FLy Shop. I think it is sad...

 

[sandfly]

Cabelas didn't really put them under the economy did.they were on the way down for years. also most people buy online, or at the craft shops any more.how do you expect us to stay afloat with that. anglers pro has done well since bill started to sell on the internet. dale clemens retired, rod moved to colorado, main stream and daves is up for sale. they are retiring too. I was there when cabelas opened and they didn't hurt the shop one bit.


slate run has a few local flies but most are orvis flys from over seas..
most shops can not afford what tyers here have to make to make a living off of local flies.

 

[Heritage-Angler]

Sandfly - What you say is true, however, I've never seen overseas flies that were really well tied. They don't use the best of materials, or use materials that are no longer commonly available. They also don't tie local patterns that outfish generic ones. All of which describes your fly bins.

Time to come home, Bob. ;-)

 

[MKern]

The Feathered Hook's flies are tied by a local guy (Todd Johnson).

Hille's gets some flies from Don Bastian, and they used to order teh rest from an americam company.

 

[PatriotFly26]

Might I just add that this gives you another reason to tie your own flies. When you buy materials, try to buy American, if you hunt, use fur or feathers of those animals.

I'm a young man, not some old chizzled UhhmarICAN but hate all this globalization in my favorite sport, fly fishing. Especially when it's China and India. Just adding my .02 in that.

Now it is nearly unavoidable to have an entirely American fly tying set up, but lets try to do the best we can.

 

[Sylvaneous]

Phlsphyguy wrote:

On another note, I live in the Lehigh Valley and there isn't one dedicated fly shop here anymore. The last one was The Little Lehigh Fly Shop which closed in Dec. 2010. It bothers me when another business closes. .

Wow. That sucks. When I lived there, there were THREE, one just 2 blocks from my house. There are 1 million people in the Lehigh Valley area. It has way more than its share of Class A wild trout water (Bushkill, Monocacy, LL, Trout Run, Cedar, Saucon) plus hatches, plus the Lehigh River (on which I never did very well), the Delaware, plus the near-by Pocono streams, and Shore casting salt water fishing. They have both the population AND the fishing; Very rare, especially for trout. That's something that NONE of those places made a go of it.
Heck, there's a fly shop near Oil Creek and this place is poor, thinly populated and Oil Creek only fishes for trout well right after stocking in spring and then from the end of April to the 1st of June. Basically a 3 1/2 month fishery. They don't even pimp the local smallmouth fishery.

I learned from some true GREATS around the Little lehigh flyshop. Rod hosted Lefty, Bob Clouser, Gary Borger, Don Douple, Dave Rothrock. I learned a TON from them. I'm still buds with Dave and look forward to bumping into him when I venture to Central PA. Then there were the "Regulars", like Al Miller and Rick Heiserman: people not otherwise noteworthy except they were great people and, like a lot of us, knew what they were doing, were very good at it, and did it all the time. No books, tours, videos, articles or anything else.


Does Nestor's still have the flyfishing department? When they folded it into the main building, it started to get much more sparse.

 

[gfen]

Sylvaneous wrote:
Does Nestor's still have the flyfishing department? When they folded it into the main building, it started to get much more sparse.

They have a nice little wooden case with some picked over flies, but that's about it.

Wonder if they'd sell me the case?

LLFS was doomed from divine hatred of Rod and resultant flood waters. ASL was doomed by dog beds and inability to spool reels. The third one? That Orvis place in the Orrs building? DUnno what happened to that.

I find it amusing that the LV can't support a fly shop. Maybe its local business owners can't properly run a fly shop and the jaded locals descend enmasse upon the interwebs to buy stuff?

On fly shops... Why do budget options never seem to exist? High end or no end, make your choice. Budget? To Cabela's or big box shops with you!

 

[sandfly]

Gfen budget shop?? only big box stores get the big reduction in prices from distributors. small guy can't afford the large volumes to get better discounts. same thing for hardware stores. mom & pop can't compete with lowes because they don't buy enough volume to get a better discount so their profit margin is smaller thus raising prices higher than lowes to make a living. same for us little guys.

 

[pcray1231]

Oil Creek only fishes for trout well right after stocking in spring and then from the end of April to the 1st of June.

syl, last year was an exception, but historically Oil has produced very well into mid-July, on average. Every year is a little different. 2 years ago July was downright awesome and even August/September weren't hopeless, and then last year it died in June. But its a decent fall fishery too, with fall stockings combined with a fair number of holdovers and even a wild brown here and there thrown in for good measure. Oil is far more than a 3 month fishery, I'd have said 7 or 8 months for trout, and 2-3 months for bass as well.

It's also in an area of the state lacking FF shops.

click me

Keep in mind that Forest County Sports is now shut down, St. Mary's carries some FF stuff but it's not FF specific, and the Erie shops focus on steelhead, not stream trout. Going even as far as Punxy and Indiana, those shops are not pure FF shops, and Indiana at least last I checked was only open for part of the year. So in NW PA, it's pretty much Oil Creek and Neshannock, and Neshannock is way out of the way for anyone not from Ohio or the border region. The next nearest true FF shops are Cross Fork and Pittsburgh, which are both several hours away.

Add to that the fact there are no big box stores in this area. No Cabelas, Beans, and the only Gander Mountain is in Erie. There's not even any ****'s, which you can at least pick up tippet and shot when needed. In the SE, this map is failing to show the Orvis shops, Cabelas, LL Bean, etc.

And on top of all that, IMO, the NW region is a better trout region than SE PA, certainly more streams though maybe its best aren't as good. Still, it gets plenty of fishing traffic from Pittsburghers, who must travel to find trout.

 

[RLeep2]

There's a ****'s at the Millcreek Mall.

Or at least there was the last time I was down there, which was Christmas shopping a couple months ago. Actually, its almost next door to Gander Mountain.

I'd call Syl's characterization of Oil Creek in a given year pretty accurate. In a cool year, it might be relatively reliable in thermal terms until about 6/15 and after 10/1. Although I'm sure that it is spottily fishable for trout all through the Summer, particularly at first light. And I know that during higher summer flow periods, you can catch almost as many trout as you do bass on spinning gear all through the Summer. We used to float it from the Well down to Petroleum Center expressly for this purpose.

But it is a very rare year that finds Oil Creek consistently suitable for trout much past the middle of June. And this makes sense.. It is the composite of two streams (particularly Oil Creek proper above and through Titusville) that routinely go into the mid to upper 70's in their lower few miles in the Summer and it has few cold tribs of significance through the state park section.

 

[pcray1231]

Well, personally, I've always done very well in early July. Used to always go there on the 4th of July weekend through HS and college. Here are all of my July Oil Creek outings back to 96, from my journal.

Friday, July 5, 1996: Fished Oil from 5 p.m. till dark. Caught 16, including 2 in the mid-teens. All browns on minnies.

Saturday, July 6, 1996: Fished Oil all day, with a break for lunch. Landed 36 fish, mostly browns on minnies, but also some rainbows on eggs.

Friday, July 4, 1997: Fished Oil in the morning, 8 fish before lunch. All 3 species caught, surprised to catch brookie in Oil.

Friday, July 3, 1998: Fished Oil all day. Skunked! There was a hatch on, fish rising everywhere, but wouldn't take bait. A fly fisherman at the parking area said he caught 21 that day.

Saturday, July 4, 1998: Took dad's old fly rod to Oil. No hatch, no risers. Bait fisherman nearby cleaned up. Frustrating, tons of fish here and I can't get em.

Sunday, July 5, 1998: Took both the spinning rod and the fly rod, tricky to ride the bike with 2 rods and a minnow bucket. Caught 1 fish on mealworm in morning, then hatch started. Must of had 50+ hits on dry flies, every frickin cast. Only hooked (and landed) one, on a white bug of some sort. My first fish on a fly rod! Hatch ended around 11 a.m. and I switched to spinning rod till dinnertime, and ended up with 27 fish on the day.

Friday, July 7, 2000: Fished Oil from 2 p.m. till dark. Caught 18, mostly browns working live minnows across the flats.

Saturday, July 14, 2001: Fished Oil from 7 a.m. till around noon. Caught 9 trout and a bass on streamers, fishing died off after 10 a.m. Dad got 14 on live minnows, all trout.

Saturday, July 6, 2002: Fished Oil from 2 p.m. till 7 or 8, when I was chased off by a thunderstorm. 12 fish caught, mostly rainbows on egg imitations in deeper faster runs.

Sunday, July 20, 2003: Fished Oil all day. Fishing tough, but managed 6 browns on live minnows. Dad got 3 browns and 2 smallmouths.

Monday, July 13, 2009: Fished Oil in the evening. A few sulphur spinners, and a fair amount of egg laying caddis. Skittering a stimmie at dark was nuts! Landed 9, all of them in the last hour.

 

[mrflyfish]

Word on the street in NWPA a Cabalas is going to build in Meadville.



There are other Streams/Rivers around Oil that fish well into the steelhead runs(late August) but shisss.....is the word. I've probably said too much

 

[gfen]

sandfly wrote:
Gfen budget shop?? only big box stores get the big reduction in prices from distributors. s

Nah, just cheap stuff. Granted, I don't get the vagaries of business, but I'd think a fly shop could go a long way with a couple of el cheapo Cortland ready-to-fish boxes for $60 in the corner.

Read an article on Fly Fish Ohio recently here which helped sum up some of my thoughts on that aspect.

"f fly shops push the long-rod-curious to the $300+ “mid-level” gear, whether through falsely perceived necessity or haughty elitism, then the result is the business equivalent of slamming a door in the customer’s face."

I started at ****'s with an all-in-wonder kit because I had giftcards. I'm not sure if I'd have jumped into this if my first visit had been either LLFS or the Orvis shops, who for example start at $198 for a full kit. Mine cost me $85, and at the time, seemed like a lot.

Oh, the naive moments, when $85 seemed expensive. ;-)

postscript: you make pretty rods.

 

[MKern]

I aggree that a shop should have low-end stuff for beginners and only carry up to the mid-price range for rods (less than $300).

Why have the overhead of $600 rods and reels when that stuff can be ordered and shipped (to the customer's house) in a week.
I understand having samples to test though.


The only problem I see is that most beginners have no idea that fly shops exsist or where they are at. However, they know Cabelas, BP, and Gander Mt. are there. (well the Internet too).

For example, how many questions show up on here weekly about what fly shops are close to me?
These are people even willing enough to scan the Interent and stumbled to PAFF not the timid beginner.