Jean's Run-
- Thread starter KeithS
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It's not unusual for trout streams to have a gradient of less than 1%. For example Cross Fork Creek's gradient, from origin to mouth, is .81%. And most people would consider it a medium gradient stream, not a low gradient stream. It's a riffle-pool type stream.
pcray1231
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:-0. Who?
Hehe.
Fishing those steep streams is good exercise. No need to buy a stair-stepper machine.
This summer a buddy and I fished a stream in Sproul State Forest where the elevation change between where we started fishing on the lower part of the creek back up to car was 1318 feet.
That may not be much by the standards of mountain climbers in the Rockies, but it's a lot for PA, and gives you a workout.
This summer a buddy and I fished a stream in Sproul State Forest where the elevation change between where we started fishing on the lower part of the creek back up to car was 1318 feet.
That may not be much by the standards of mountain climbers in the Rockies, but it's a lot for PA, and gives you a workout.
Swattie87
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I think they lived to tell the tale. 🙂
On one of my trips with a group into this stream, I was the furthest downstream (working upstream) at the time. Because of the gradient and roar of the water, you often can’t hear someone talking or even yelling just ahead of you. I was climbing up out of the stream to the “trail” – I use that term VERY loosely – through the rhodo on one of the banks. The climb out of the stream at this spot is probably 20 or so feet high, and somewhere on the order of a 60% degree slope…not vertical, but VERY steep. I thought I could climb it instead of walking back down to the bottom of the pools and up the easier way. About 3/4 of the way up I went for some footing on a milk crate sized boulder that proceeded to just give way beneath me and crash into the stream bed. Fortunately my hands were around some sizable roots over my head at the precipice and I was able to pull/crawl myself up. There was just enough slope that I probably could have slowed myself down enough on the way down to not break anything if I didn’t have a good hand hold, but it wouldn’t have felt very good hitting the stream bed from that height. And seeing as though I was the furthest downstream and we were leapfrogging, I don’t think anyone would have heard me right away if I did need help. Needless to say, I took the longer, easier route from there forward on this stream. In all seriousness, and not trying to exaggerate a thing, don’t fish this stream or others like it alone.
On one of my trips with a group into this stream, I was the furthest downstream (working upstream) at the time. Because of the gradient and roar of the water, you often can’t hear someone talking or even yelling just ahead of you. I was climbing up out of the stream to the “trail” – I use that term VERY loosely – through the rhodo on one of the banks. The climb out of the stream at this spot is probably 20 or so feet high, and somewhere on the order of a 60% degree slope…not vertical, but VERY steep. I thought I could climb it instead of walking back down to the bottom of the pools and up the easier way. About 3/4 of the way up I went for some footing on a milk crate sized boulder that proceeded to just give way beneath me and crash into the stream bed. Fortunately my hands were around some sizable roots over my head at the precipice and I was able to pull/crawl myself up. There was just enough slope that I probably could have slowed myself down enough on the way down to not break anything if I didn’t have a good hand hold, but it wouldn’t have felt very good hitting the stream bed from that height. And seeing as though I was the furthest downstream and we were leapfrogging, I don’t think anyone would have heard me right away if I did need help. Needless to say, I took the longer, easier route from there forward on this stream. In all seriousness, and not trying to exaggerate a thing, don’t fish this stream or others like it alone.
k-bob
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tb: I don't like to walk 1318 feet in a straight smooth level line 🙂 that's crazy.
swattie: now that steep, deep ravine streams have a lot of snow and ice, it will be a long time til it's gone. little sun and a cool microclimate down there.
swattie: now that steep, deep ravine streams have a lot of snow and ice, it will be a long time til it's gone. little sun and a cool microclimate down there.
pcray1231
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Yeah, that "winter" day we fished was actually early spring. The valley had no snow. Things were different in that ravine.
I also fished it one EXTREMELY hot July day a few years back. The high topped 100. I don't think it hit 80 down there, we were joking the whole way up about how bad the weather report was. Then we climbed over that last big waterfall and topped out, and the heat hit us suddenly, like a ton of bricks. At the exact same time, we hit cell phone range, and my buddy's phone went nuts. He had a bunch of voicemails from his wife telling him to come home immediately because the A/C died. It was nearly dark by the time he got em. Oops.
I also fished it one EXTREMELY hot July day a few years back. The high topped 100. I don't think it hit 80 down there, we were joking the whole way up about how bad the weather report was. Then we climbed over that last big waterfall and topped out, and the heat hit us suddenly, like a ton of bricks. At the exact same time, we hit cell phone range, and my buddy's phone went nuts. He had a bunch of voicemails from his wife telling him to come home immediately because the A/C died. It was nearly dark by the time he got em. Oops.
pcray1231
Well-known member
1318 ft gain is nothing to sneeze at, and it's not that far off from climbing from a Valley to the high country in the Rockies.
I mean, the rockies are certainly bigger than our mountains. But people exaggerate the difference. Think of it this way. Say, in the front range, the peaks may be 11k ft plus. But the creek valleys are 8000 ft. And unless they're setting out specifically to do it (mountain climbers), most people don't go up those rocky peaks above the tree line, which is like 10k ft.
I mean, the rockies are certainly bigger than our mountains. But people exaggerate the difference. Think of it this way. Say, in the front range, the peaks may be 11k ft plus. But the creek valleys are 8000 ft. And unless they're setting out specifically to do it (mountain climbers), most people don't go up those rocky peaks above the tree line, which is like 10k ft.
pcray1231
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That's true, but on the type of streams we're talking about, ice is pretty dangerous too! Sometimes it's more like climbing than hiking. And when your foot is on a narrow ledge of a cliff, and that ledge is covered in sheet ice, well....
jrmyln
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Pcray,
I was referring to JR. Glen Onoko, same thing. I've fished those streams throughout the year for the last 20 years from the top to the bottom. I've had issues with the ice but I've got to say stepping into a 3ft hole and not knowing it is worse. You can usually see the ice or anticipate where it's going to be and with a friend nearby, you're usually in good shape.
I was referring to JR. Glen Onoko, same thing. I've fished those streams throughout the year for the last 20 years from the top to the bottom. I've had issues with the ice but I've got to say stepping into a 3ft hole and not knowing it is worse. You can usually see the ice or anticipate where it's going to be and with a friend nearby, you're usually in good shape.
All this talk reminds me of The steepest and most rugged terrain for a trout stream anywhere on east coast, Platte Clove creek in the Catskills.
http://www.sparsegreymatter.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=435
http://www.google.com/search?q=platte+clove&client=safari&hl=en&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=wk3TUpe6NJLIsATAsoH4DQ&ved=0CCsQsAQ&biw=1024&bih=672
I accended the stream in winter years back, that was after a deep freeze and with ice climbing equipment. The treak required mandatory climbing several of the falls as the walk around was not practical. The fishing in the summer is cold, and the water gin clear, but does holds some decent Catskill brooks. Also holds few cars from the seasonal road the follows it high above.
http://www.sparsegreymatter.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=435
http://www.google.com/search?q=platte+clove&client=safari&hl=en&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=wk3TUpe6NJLIsATAsoH4DQ&ved=0CCsQsAQ&biw=1024&bih=672
I accended the stream in winter years back, that was after a deep freeze and with ice climbing equipment. The treak required mandatory climbing several of the falls as the walk around was not practical. The fishing in the summer is cold, and the water gin clear, but does holds some decent Catskill brooks. Also holds few cars from the seasonal road the follows it high above.
NJAngler
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I think what some forget is that there is a big difference hiking 2 miles on dry land and hiking 2 miles in snow. Even a few inches can have you slipping with each step and you'll soon be out of breath. I can hike all day covering 8-10 miles but ten minutes walking up a snow covered hillside and I'm toast.
I concur on the 'what lies beneath' threat. I have some shin/knee/elbow banging moments where snow gave way to a 2 foot hole. Not fun. Sloooow and easy. I try to stick to walking in the stream as much as possible.
Winter time I stick to low gradient waters in open areas if I can. Ravine waters will always be colder - both the air and water. Sucking in deep breaths of cold air is not healthy either.
I concur on the 'what lies beneath' threat. I have some shin/knee/elbow banging moments where snow gave way to a 2 foot hole. Not fun. Sloooow and easy. I try to stick to walking in the stream as much as possible.
Winter time I stick to low gradient waters in open areas if I can. Ravine waters will always be colder - both the air and water. Sucking in deep breaths of cold air is not healthy either.
Regarding slope, I recently stumbled upon the factoid that the steepest street in the US is in Pittsburgh. Who knew? People try to ride bicycles up this beast.
The steepest part of it has a gradient of 37%. At the link there are two photos that give you an idea of how steep that is.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canton_Avenue
Chaz
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Great stuff, I've travelled all over the U.S. for work over the years, and the steepest grad on a hill that you drive on is still the climb at Rickets Glen on route 487, it's 18%. So the street in the Burg is steeper.
For comparison the climb at the road from I 25 to the S. Platt is 15%, and a climb on a mountain coming out of Sequioa NF last week averaged 8%, though some of it was steeper I don't believe it was as steep as the hill on Red Rock Mt. in Rickets Glen.
For comarison to that, every year in Philly they hold an international cycling race they climb the Manayunk Wall 10 times during the race it is a 17% grade.
Conclusion, PA has some very steep roads. I always saidthe Burgh hasthe most hills of any city in the U.S.
For comparison the climb at the road from I 25 to the S. Platt is 15%, and a climb on a mountain coming out of Sequioa NF last week averaged 8%, though some of it was steeper I don't believe it was as steep as the hill on Red Rock Mt. in Rickets Glen.
For comarison to that, every year in Philly they hold an international cycling race they climb the Manayunk Wall 10 times during the race it is a 17% grade.
Conclusion, PA has some very steep roads. I always saidthe Burgh hasthe most hills of any city in the U.S.
Giant's Despair in Laurel Run is a great hillclimb race in PA for over 100 years.
Also, "Mile Hill" on Suscon Road up that way is a real steep climb.
Ricketts Glen is steep, too.
The Burgh is hilly. San Francisco is also "up there" when it comes to Cities with a lot of hills.
