Is Roll Casting easier on shoulder with fast action rod

[Prospector]

I have over a dozen fly rods but I tend to favor medium action. Most streams I fish are brushy enough that I roll cast about 80-90% of the time. In recent years I’ve noticed my shoulder tends to get sore in the rotator cuff area after a day or several hours of casting.

I’m wondering if anyone has experience with fast action rods reducing shoulder soreness as compared to medium action. I imagine by using my medium action I’m generating more downward force to get a weighted fly out there. I’m wondering if a fast action rod may provide the necessary distance to roll casts with less strain on my shoulder.

If you feel a particular fast action rod would reduce my shoulder strain, please let me know which brand and model you recommend. I don’t believe in spending much for a rod so I’d try to stay below $200. I tend to fish a 5wt line.

 

[tomgamber]

One Naproxen (Aleve) before you leave the house is cheaper than a new rod. But I find slower rods tend to roll better than stiff ones.

 

[FarmerDave]

Good question, and although I don't have the answer, I do have an opinion on it. I tend to favor moderate to even slow action.

It is my opinion that roll casting is easier on the shoulder with moderate to slow action rod if you are using them correctly.

Try slowing things down a little bit and let the rod do the work.

I'm interested to hear what others say on this.

 

[tomgamber]

I WILL ADD THAT I FIND DOUBLE TAPER LINES ROLL MUCH EASIER THAN A WEIGHT FORWARD ONES AS WELL.

 

[salvelinusfontinalis]

Imo no.
A longer full flex rod is best, but mid length full to kid flex roll cast like a dream.
Just MO, I can roll cast an 11'fullflex a mile

 

[FarmerDave]

salvelinusfontinalis wrote:

Just MO, I can roll cast an 11'fullflex a mile

This part tells me sal has been an angler for a long time, so I believe the first part. ;-)

 

[Scratch]

Ok, so what is the best combination of rod length, rod action and line weight and taper? I have been fly fishing a long time and really never found the correct combination. I can roll cast somewhat but really have to work at it. On the other hand I have seen people do it so effortlessly that it makes me jealous.

 

[troutbert]

IMHO, roll casting with a weighted fly requires a great deal of force, so it probably creates stress on the shoulder. You have to generate a lot of line speed to create enough momentum of the line to roll around the line, leader, and the weighted fly. While you are setting up the roll cast, the fly is probably sinking, so additional force is required to pull the sunken fly up through the water.

With a weighted fly, particularly a heavily weighted fly, you're probably better off using other casting techniques. Especially since you have shoulder problems.

With a weighted nymph or streamer, at the downstream end of your drift, just let the current pull the line taut downstream of you. You want everything stretched out in a straight line below you, from the tip of the rod down through the line and leader to the fly.

Lift your rod tip, which will cause the weighted fly to come to the surface. That way you don't have to apply force during your cast to bring the weighted fly up through the water. Then make your cast upstream.

There is no backcast involved. Your line, leader and fly are already lined up below, all stretched out from the rod tip down to the fly.

With the line stretched out downstream of you, face upstream to where you want the cast to go, and send it.

With a weighted fly, it's good start the cast out slow, then smoothly accelerate your cast.

I think this type of cast is much less stressful on the shoulder, arm etc. You don't have to apply much force. Not much line speed is needed.

Some people refer to this cast as a "water haul." I used this cast for years before I knew there was a name for it. But if you do some internet searches for "water haul cast" you might find better instructions or illustrations or maybe videos on how to do it.

It's very easy. Once you know how. ;-) Seriously, it's much easier than roll casting a weighted fly.

And easier than standard fly casting, because there is no false casting involved.

On a narrow stream, you probably are casting upstream, then drifting the fly back close to you, then roll casting upstream again. So you wouldn't ordinarily have the line downstream of you.

But that's not a problem. Nearly the end of your drift, just flip the the fly, leader and the top end of the line downstream of you, and let the current straighten everything out below you.

Then lift the rod tip, be sure the fly is near the surface, then just sling it upstream.

 

[afishinado]

You should be able to roll cast just about any rod. No need to shop for a special rod to make a roll cast, although longer rod has an advantage by increasing the size of you "D" loop, any length rod will work.

The same for lines. No need to buy a special line either. The head on a regular WF line is tapered the same as a DT line until the WF line tapers downs to the running line, which is usually a lot further than most anglers would ever roll cast.

Here is a video that demonstrates the roll cast. It's amazing how easy it is to do with the proper technique and a little practice. Towards the end of the video, he demonstrates how to use a haul or double haul to load the rod and make a roll cast with even less effort at a greater distance.

It takes every little effort to execute a roll cast and should never overexert your shoulder if done properly. With slow acceleration to a crisp stop, the line should roll right out.

Check out the video.

 

[afishinado]

I just read the post Troutbert posted above. Great info and description about the water haul cast. It really works well in a lot of situations and it's probably the simplest cast one can make. Check out the short video below:

 

[sarce]

+1 to Troutbert's and Afishinado's posts.

Buying new gear to compensate for a problem in your casting is not the same as learning how to do the roll cast properly - save your money! The water haul is a great technique too.

 

[troutbert]

When fishing small forested streams, I use the side-arm cast more than any other.

Probably also easier on the shoulder than roll casting.

 

[Fly-Swatter]

Prospector: Some thought I hope will help...

Technique: I'm as guilty of using power to compensate for questionable technique as anyone. I find when I back off the power/muscle I cast much better. I'm not trying to be critical of your casting, especially since I have no idea how well you cast. I do know, however, that inefficient casting technique will lead to fatigue. Fatigue can lead to injury. Rotator cuff injuries are no joke.

You might consider strength training for your shoulder. The exercises to strengthen the rotator cuff are different from those usually associated with "shoulder training." A google search will reveal many at-home exercises you can do to prevent injuries.

The Rod: As I'm sure you know, a fly rod is a very efficient cantilevered spring. It should do almost all the work for you.

I found the main difference between a fast action and slow action rod is the sped of the casting stroke. If you match that to your rod, you should be good.

I have a circa 1950s Sears Ted Williams fiberglass rod my dad gave to me. I had trouble slowing my casting stroke down to the rod. One time, in his 70s and after not having handled that rod for decades, I watched my dad effortlessly roll a cast under an overhanging tree about 30 feet away. Very impressive! He looked to me like he was casting in slow motion.

I hope this was helpful.

 

[Prospector]

Guys, Thanks for all of the advice.

I’m really glad I asked since this brought out many suggestions that I’ve not thought about. It also highlighted a few casting methods that I need to try. I have been fly fishing for over 40 years so I believe my roll casting is pretty solid but I do need to punch it out there sometimes with force. My mechanics could be flawed but it always seemed like my softer rods were holding me back.

Thanks again everyone!!

 

[falcon]

I sometimes fish a older Winston IM6 81/2 ft 5wt with a double taper line. I can roll cast this rig 45 ft.Probablt further) no problem. I hear that Wulff lines are a good choice to roll cast.

 

[outsider]

WILL ADD THAT I FIND DOUBLE TAPER LINES ROLL MUCH EASIER THAN A WEIGHT FORWARD ONES AS WELL. AGREE

But I find slower rods tend to roll better than stiff ones.

Both Tom Gamber posts above I agree with.

Pushing downward to form the loop is wrong in my opinoin

 

[tomgamber]

I'm not being a wise @$$ when I suggested the Aleve before going out. Especially now that I know you are old enough to have fished for over 40 years. I'm 53 and a bottle of Naproxen lasts me about a year. But when the shoulder or knee gets iffy it makes over working old joints tolerable.

 

[afishinado]

For roll casting, or any casting for that matter, a WF & DT cast the same at fishing distances. Since, with the exception of some specialty-tapered lines, the taper of most regular WF & DT trout fly lines are identical in the first 35-40’ (see pic below).

Adding the rod and leader length, the two tapers cast the same out to about 50'. After that length, the WF tapers into a thin running line for shooting, while the DT maintains the same diameter until tapers at the opposite end, mirroring the front taper. Most casters would end up shooting line into their cast anyway, rather than try to roll cast the line longer than 50'. That's where the running line of a WF fly line comes in handy.

 

[shadspoon]

I am 66 years old, 2 casting arm surgeries later I find the best medicine is physical therapy exercises. I also use the Aleve daily. My best roll cast is with a worn out Winston IM6. I can no longer use the big rods. Exercise daily and be able to use a 5 wt.. I am good with that! If your fishing hurts you stop! Then figure out another option. Rio makes a single hand spey that I will try this year. Keep your elbow lower than your shoulder! NO HERO CASTS!!!

 

[Prospector]

tomgamber wrote:
I'm not being a wise @$$ when I suggested the Aleve before going out. Especially now that I know you are old enough to have fished for over 40 years. I'm 53 and a bottle of Naproxen lasts me about a year. But when the shoulder or knee gets iffy it makes over working old joints tolerable.

I didn’t take it that way. I did laugh though when you suggested Aleve is cheaper than a new rod. My wife agrees with you.

I’ve never had enough pain to stop fishing or miss a day, I’m just trying to avoid a cumulative effect injury. The whole thread has me thinking I need to look for a flaw in my mechanics.