How to get long leader to turn over with 2 wt rod.

[Bopper]

I was trying to catch rising trout with midges and using a 7-1/2' 2 wt rod with 2 wt DT line. 12' and even 9' 6x leaders would not turn over unless I really whipped it. It casts lovely with a 7-1/2' leader and is real stealthy. Anybody having success with long leaders and 2 wt rods? Maybe I need WF line or a heavier longer rod?

 

[MKern]

I have always stuck with shorter leaders on lighter rods.

I don't think there is enough backbone to transfer energy down that much leader.

 

[just_jon]

I've found using a furled leader with a tippet attached via tippet right can be helpful.

 

[BrookieChaser]

Is it an extruded tapered leader? What is the connection to the fly line?

 

[troutbert]

If you used the same leader, and the same length (7 1/2 ft) rod, but a 4 wt rod instead of a 2 wt, you'd probably have no trouble at all.

 

[CRB]

need to hand tie the leader. Extruded leaders do not cast well due to the fact they are made to appeal to an aray of line weights. Check out a leader formula to make or a ultra light weight furled leader. I have a few 1 wt that are pleasant to cast, with a proper leader.

 

[Bopper]

Thanks folks, I appreciate the input!

I was using a tapered knotless leader when I had the problem turning it over. Connection was loop to loop. The Rio line has a welded loop.

Furled leader sounds like a good idea. I remember seeing someplace how to make them. Might be fun. Ditto for tying your own single strand mono. Very interesting!

I was back out yesterday evening with the same rod and line but used a shorter 7-1/2' tapered leader. Caught several brookies out of the same pool on a caddis dry fly, so apparently I don't need the 12 or 9' leader, haha. I think maybe the 2 wt DT line lands so softly the fish don't get spooked, which is really cool. When it is low and clear like now, I think a WF line might tend to spook them more.

 

[PennKev]

The reason furled leaders work well with lighter lines is that they have a lot more mass (relative to extruded mono leaders). It's actually sort of an end-around alternative to over lining the rod in order to achieve better turnover. You are essentially removing mono which has has very low mass and which absorbs a lot of energy from the line in order to turnover and replacing it with a leader that acts more like an extension of the fly line in terms of weight and turnover. I can't remember the exact numbers off-hand but I think the typical furled leader I use weighs around 12 grains in 7' length. A 12' leader would weigh much more. When dealing with such light lines and rods, this additional weight is not insignificant in terms of casting performance.

 

[moon1284]

Cut the loop, nail knot leader to fly line, and make a knotted tapered leader. That should help. I agree with TB though, a 12' leader will be easier to handle on a heavier wt rod.

 

[Swattie87]

moon1284 wrote:
Cut the loop, nail knot leader to fly line, and make a knotted tapered leader. That should help. I agree with TB though, a 12' leader will be easier to handle on a heavier wt rod.

Lot of opinions in the thread, which is good. The OP should experiment and see what works best for them, but FWIW, I disagree with this ^. And would recommend some other experimentation first before cutting your welded loop off your fly line, since you can't undo that. Here's why:

I don't think a loop to loop vs. a nail knot makes an appreciable difference here. They both add essentially the same mass to the system, and any mass added would essentially be a wash between them when comparing them. You gotta connect your leader to your fly line somehow right?

Bottom line, all other things being equal, the longer the leader, the harder it is to turn over. Regardless of line weight trying to turn it over. When you're talking about relatively light line weights (2 weight for example) you have less mass in the line to help you turn the leader over. Problem is, most people (including me) when fishing a 2 or 3 weight use a very similar leader setup to what they use on say a 5 weight. So the leader is more or less the same, but in the case of a 2 weight it is being casted by a line with relatively less mass...thus it's relatively harder to turn over and requires more energy/force (in the form of speed in this case since mass has been reduced via the lighter fly line) to do so. Hence the OP feeling like he had to hustle his casts to turn over the longer leaders on his 2 wt.

The solution is to use a lighter leader set up with the lighter line weights, or make the leader shorter, and thus require less energy from the lighter fly lines to turn it over. Good rule of thumb for any type of fishing...Use the shortest possible leader that you need to get the presentation you want. When small stream fishing with my 3 weights (my lightest rods) I don't really ever see the need to have a leader longer than 7.5 feet from fly connection to the end of my tippet. If I’m on a bigger stream and need a longer leader to get the presentation I want, a longer 5 or 6 weight is a better tool for the job anyway.

 

[moon1284]

The reason to cut the welded when using a 12' leader isn't necessarily to improve turnover - I'd agree the gain on that is minimal to nothing.
The reason to ditch the welded loop on that rig is because you can cast the nail knot connection through the guides much easier than you can a loop to loop connection.

I hate welded loops and cut them off of every line I have immediately, but I know not all people agree with that. Disregarding my feelings on welded loops, if you use a loop to loop connection with a 12' leader on a 7.5' rod, you are going to be spending a lot of time grabbing the leader with your hand and pulling it through the guides. If you nail knot fly line to leader, you won't spend as much time doing that.

 

[salvelinus]

Try a furled leader.

 

[LetortAngler]

Anymore on my shorter rods (which I use 80% of the time), I use Umpqua Power Taper leaders. My first time trying them a few years back I was blown away how well they turned over compared to a normal extruded leader, and even more so hand-built ones. Worth a try imo if you happen to come across them.

 

[Bopper]

Thanks again guys. As you see below, I am actually trying the things you are suggesting.

I was casting on grass today with a 4 wt fiberglass rod, 7-1/2' 6x tapered knotless leader and 2 wt DT line. Also tried 3 and 4 wt WF lines with the same leader. Was having problems getting a Wulff dry fly to turn over. It was a size 10 or 12 with the bend of the hook cut off. When I turned around and cast the other direction the leader turned over much better. I hadn't realized I had been casting into a slight headwind. The 6x leader is so light that a slight breeze had a big effect on the somewhat bushy fly.

Also noticed the WF lines landed harder than the DT, but they were 3 and 4 weights versus 2 wt, so not apples to apples.

I think next I will make some 9 and 12' knotted tapered leaders and try them. Might also order some furled leaders.

I have a set of the Airflo 5' light trout tips. Maybe the floating tip will act like a furled leader? Might just have to try that out too.

 

[PennKev]

Bopper wrote:
Was having problems getting a Wulff dry fly to turn over. It was a size 10 or 12 with the bend of the hook cut off...

....The 6x leader is so light that a slight breeze had a big effect on the somewhat bushy fly.

There is no magic leader that is going to reliably turnover a #10 wulff on 6x tippet. Particularly when paired with a light line like a 2wt or 3wt. In fact, without the breeze, you would have probably had a tough time turning over the fly in either direction in dead calm.

I know this thread is about leaders, but IMO as far as 2wt and 3wt rods and lines go, they really only do one thing well and that is fish small dries or emergers in situations where a light presentation is critical. This pretty much boils down to sight fishing with tricos, midges, or any other truly small flies. I realize that a lot of guys insist on fishing light line rods, particularly 2wts, as their small stream rigs and I did the same for a time. I just got tired of trying to overcome the limits of light line weights. I'd rather be able to cast easily and pop 3" long brookies out of the water one after another with minimal effort.

 

[troutbert]

For a size 10 Wulff, you should be using 4x tippet.

The 6x tippet is too thin to transfer the energy of the fly line enough to turn over that big, air resistant fly.

 

[tomgamber]

unless the fish laugh at your 4x and won't take anything bigger than 6x.

 

[PennKev]

tomgamber wrote:
unless the fish laugh at your 4x and won't take anything bigger than 6x.

Be sure to post a trip report the next time you encounter fish eating #10 dries but being so selective that 6x is required.

:roll:

 

[tomgamber]

about 8000 ft in central idaho...usually a 12 but...and it'd be 7x

 

[moon1284]

You sure those fish wouldn't take a #16?