How to fish private portions of streams in poconos?

[poopdeck]

But the statement is still correct.

All I needed to do as a landowner in that instance was prove that the trespasser had damaged my property. It could have been a tree, crop field, fence, etc.

Nope. Still wrong. Here is what simple trespass says:
(b.1) Simple trespasser.--

(1) A person commits an offense if, knowing that he is not licensed or privileged to do so, he enters or remains in any place for the purpose of:

(i) threatening or terrorizing the owner or occupant of the premises;

(ii) starting or causing to be started any fire upon the premises; or

(iii) defacing or damaging the premises.

(2) An offense under this subsection constitutes a summary offense.

After satisfying the “knowing that he is not licensed or privileged to do so,” the purpose for entering or remaining also has to include one of three things, in this case (iii) to deface or damage the property. The act of walking to a creek to fish it does not remotely satisfy the element that the offenders purpose was to damage or deface. My guess is if it was held up in court is was simply magisterial court and not a court of common pleas.

the proper charge, also a summary, would be:
b.2) Agricultural trespasser.--

(1) A person commits an offense if knowing that he is not licensed or privileged to do so he:

(i) enters or remains on any agricultural or other open lands when such lands are posted in a manner prescribed by law or reasonably likely to come to the person's attention or are fenced or enclosed in a manner manifestly designed to exclude trespassers or to confine domestic animals;

It’s right there in black and right so there is no need to continue a discussion on what the law is. Again, it’s easier to fish the many areas of public land than deal with misinformed property owners.

 

[Cznymph]

Nope. Still wrong. Here is what simple trespass says:
(b.1) Simple trespasser.--

(1) A person commits an offense if, knowing that he is not licensed or privileged to do so, he enters or remains in any place for the purpose of:

(i) threatening or terrorizing the owner or occupant of the premises;

(ii) starting or causing to be started any fire upon the premises; or

(iii) defacing or damaging the premises.

(2) An offense under this subsection constitutes a summary offense.

After satisfying the “knowing that he is not licensed or privileged to do so,” the purpose for entering or remaining also has to include one of three things, in this case (iii) to deface or damage the property. The act of walking to a creek to fish it does not remotely satisfy the element that the offenders purpose was to damage or deface. My guess is if it was held up in court is was simply magisterial court and not a court of common pleas.

the proper charge, also a summary, would be:
b.2) Agricultural trespasser.--

(1) A person commits an offense if knowing that he is not licensed or privileged to do so he:

(i) enters or remains on any agricultural or other open lands when such lands are posted in a manner prescribed by law or reasonably likely to come to the person's attention or are fenced or enclosed in a manner manifestly designed to exclude trespassers or to confine domestic animals;

It’s right there in black and right so there is no need to continue a discussion on what the law is. Again, it’s easier to fish the many areas of public land than deal with misinformed property owners.

You know what’s even easier? Staying off land you don’t own or have specific permission to access.

 

[rrt]

When I was young, I actually saw the first part of Post #13 on signs at a place around here. I figured that landowner meant it, too.

 

[poopdeck]

You know what’s even easier? Staying off land you don’t own or have specific permission to access.

I appreciate your civility as I know you are passionate about this topic but the law puts the onus on you to inform others they don’t have your permission. Like it or not that’s how the law is written and for good reason. Not sure how one can expect or require people to get specific permission from untold numbers of unknown owners of unmarked property to take every step they take in the course of moving about a free country. That would be a completely unworkable and irrational system. With the onus on the property owner to notify, post, fence, or otherwise inform others they don’t have permission, the issue becomes a clear to understand non-issue.

 

[Cznymph]

I appreciate your civility as I know you are passionate about this topic but the law puts the onus on you to inform others they don’t have your permission. Like it or not that’s how the law is written and for good reason. Not sure how one can expect or require people to get specific permission from untold numbers of unknown owners of unmarked property to take every step they take in the course of moving about a free country. That would be a completely unworkable and irrational system. With the onus on the property owner to notify, post, fence, or otherwise inform others they don’t have permission, the issue becomes a clear to understand non-issue.

We must have had very different upbringings, I was always taught that if it wasn’t mine, to keep my hands off it.

I stick to fishing State Land, or in a few instances have used a tax map to get permission before stepping foot on someones property. It’s the polite and right thing to do.

 

[moon1284]

We must have had very different upbringings, I was always taught that if it wasn’t mine, to keep my hands off it.

I stick to fishing State Land, or in a few instances have used a tax map to get permission before stepping foot on someones property. It’s the polite and right thing to do.

Disagree it's the right thing to do. Water and access to it should be available to anyone.

Also you guys are arguing the law with an LEO. Pretty sure he has a better understanding than any of us civilians.

 

[Cznymph]

Disagree it's the right thing to do. Water and access to it should be available to anyone.

Also you guys are arguing the law with an LEO. Pretty sure he has a better understanding than any of us civilians.

I’d love to share my land with everyone, provided that people treated as if it was their own.

But we all know that people are dirt bags, and as a result, my place is posted up tighter than Fort Knox.

 

[Swattie87]

OP - As you can probably tell, this is an often discussed subject on here. The second paragraph of Poop’s first post in the thread (#7) is the best and most succinct advice you’re probably gonna get around here on this particular subject.

I’ll add this…Cross reference whatever PFBC list you’re looking at with a map that shows State Forest, State Game Lands, State Parks, and National Forest/Recreation areas. These lands are publicly owned, and access is not an issue. There are plenty of these areas all across PA including the Poconos. Fish there. PA actually has a lot of publicly owned land, more than New Jersey actually. Don’t fish privately owned water. Doing so, even unposted land, carries some risk of conflict. If you choose to do so, just know that.

Though the law is the same across PA, its interpretation amongst landowners (as mentioned, correctly or incorrectly) and the culture of accessing privately owned land for hunting and fishing varies regionally across the state. The Poconos is about the worst IMO in terms of landowners NOT allowing access. If it’s posted up there, you can ask, but the answer is gonna be “no” in my experience. If it’s not posted, I’d still ask, and the answer is probably gonna be “no”. Stick to publicly owned land, short answer.

 

[laurelrun]

And we wonder why landowners post and limit access.

Legal, moral, and polite are not always the same thing. There is a lot of public access and a couple million acres of public land that all drains to some watershed. So much simpler to stick to that and enjoy your day on the water.

 

[dudemanspecial]

And we wonder why landowners post and limit access.

What are you referencing here? Nobody in this thread is telling anyone to fish on private property.

 

[6xAdams(Jones)]

What are you referencing here? Nobody in this thread is telling anyone to fish on private property.

Dude's right. The OP only asked how to fish private sections of creeks in the Poconos... NOT, "How do I trespass (by any definition) on private property and get away with it, even if I'm only fly fishing?"

 

[bringthepain]

I just want to know who the LEO is because i'm listening to his take over all the others for obvious reasons

 

[Cznymph]

I just want to know who the LEO is because i'm listening to his take over all the others for obvious reasons

Does being an LEO make you somehow more morale or ethical than others?

 

[bringthepain]

Does being an LEO make you somehow more morale or ethical than others?

Not that i'm aware. I believe it does give you more knowledge of the law and its practical applications through experience

 

[jifigz]

I had someone charged with simple trespass for walking across a freshly planted cornfield.

It can be done and did hold up in court.

You had someone charged for merely walking through a planted cornfield? Did you go talk to the person first and politely ask them to leave? Were they nice when you talked to them?

 

[Cznymph]

You had someone charged for merely walking through a planted cornfield? Did you go talk to the person first and politely ask them to leave? Were they nice when you talked to them?

I did. I asked them to leave, the one guy gave me a hard time. He and his compadre were walking down rows of corn looking for arrowheads, trampling young corn plants as they went. It made my decision easy for me. This was prior to me posting my land.

 

[Cznymph]

Not that i'm aware. I believe it does give you more knowledge of the law and its practical applications through experience

Do PFBC wcos enforce trespass law?

 

[bringthepain]

Do PFBCs enforce trespass law?

No idear

 

[poopdeck]

Regardless of who is or isn't a LEO, the law is clearly written and easy to understand and apply. Questioning one’s upbringing and morality is nothing more than a final gasp of air from an inaccurate, intentionally misleading, and knowingly false statement.

I’m not telling anybody where to fish other than on the vast amount of open public land. I cite the law only in an attempt to bring truth and honesty back to the internet. An uphill battle for sure.

 

[phiendWMD]

I just want to know who the LEO is because i'm listening to his take over all the others for obvious reasons

LEOs will often tell you what they want you to believe instead of accurately citing laws. They are the last ones I would trust to provide correct information.