Help nymphing

[McSneek]

Agree with you Ryan - my experience has been a dropper much longer than 10" is much more prone to foul hooking a fish. I have no experience with flies set up as far apart as NewSal.

 

[Jessed]

I would of never thought of putting the two flys together like that!

 

[PennKev]

ryansheehan wrote:
If you're indicator is moving at the same speed as the surface water you have a big presentation problem....

Totally agree.

Your indicator should be moving considerably slower than the surface water if it isn't add some shot.

I don't know if "considerably slower" is a good desscription. Noticably slower perhaps? There are certainly times when the indicator should not be moving anywhere near the surface speed. I think this is why refined tightline techniques can be so effective. They force the fisherman to regulate the speed of their leader/line in relation to the speed of the flies, not the surface current. Even when slightly leading the flies, the angler is fishing much closer to the actual speed of the current at the depth of the flies.

I probably average 50 weight changes a day.

Agreed. If you aren't constantly tweaking your rig, you are doing it wrong.

As far as distance between your two flies I keep it real short, between four and six inches. The longer the distance the less connection you have with the fly, this is a strike detection killer imo.

If we are talking about rigging two flies directly in-line below the weight, I agree about the strike detection, but I also think that sometimes more distance between weight and flies IS THE VERY THING that causes mores strikes. The flies are just able to move more naturally or freely. But again, it goes back to tweaking your set up to find a balance between strike detection and actually getting strikes. But, to be fair, most times we do not need to rig flies far from the weight or on long dropper tags if we are doing everything else we can to get good drifts. Using long droppers or trailing a fly far behind the weight can become a crutch or band aid for bad drifts.

Since I'm on the topic of rigging flies in relation to the weight being used. Two flies set ups in an "F" shape where the weight is the bottom of the "F" and with two droppers tied above it, and "V" shaped rigs wear the weight is at the bottom of the "V" between two flies are really underutilized methods of rigging. They are gaining more traction from tight-line enthusiasts, but this stuff works with floating indicators too. People are just too lazy to learn how to do this stuff and usually point poor knot tying skill or the hassle of tying knots. If you don't like knots you're in the wrong hobby here, or at the very least shouldn't bother discussing anything beyond basic rigging. (End Rant)

Most of the time nymphing comes down to 2 things for me, speed and strike detection, just my thoughts on my own system, lots of good advice from others so far.

Yep.

 

[Swattie87]

I hate to admit it, but this thread reminds me of all the reasons why nymph fishing is my least favorite style of FFing. I made a commitment this Spring to do more of it, and get better at it, and I did stick to it fairly well.

Unless fish were rising or I was fishing Brookies, I nymphed...I don't think I've thrown a streamer for more than 10 minutes total this Spring. Nymphing works no doubt, and I caught a fair number of fish doing it, including a couple of really nice wild Browns, but I still struggle with finding it as enjoyable as fishing dries or streamers. Mainly for the type of stuff being discussed in this thread.

I think that's one of the cool things about FFing though...there's guys out there that love to nymph. No rules saying how you got to fish. To the OP - It will probably vary from anger to angler, but I was in your boat...I found (and still find) nymphing to be the hardest of the FFing disciplines to master.

 

[ryansheehan]

Kev, Noticeably probably is a better description. In faster water there will be a bigger difference than in slow for me.

It's funny you say that swattie its one of the reasons I love nymphing, it's like a puzzle you have to solve but there is less information than dry fly fishing. Which I love equally by the way, due to the visuals...go figure.

 

[PennKev]

Swattie87 wrote: I still struggle with finding it as enjoyable as fishing dries or streamers. Mainly for the type of stuff being discussed in this thread. .

There's absolutely nothing wrong with sticking with methods that you enjoy. The only problems I see are when people try to discredit a technique simply because of personal bias or ignorance.

 

[PennKev]

ryansheehan wrote:
Kev, Noticeably probably is a better description. In faster water there will be a bigger difference than in slow for me.

It's funny you say that swattie its one of the reasons I love nymphing, it's like a puzzle you have to solve but there is less information than dry fly fishing. Which I love equally by the way, due to the visuals...go figure.

And there is more variety to nymphing than dry fly fishing IMO. Everyone loves the excitement of seeing a fish suck down their dry, but the need to be knowledgeable and versatile for consistent success is what keeps fishing interesting.

 

[Fredrick]

What part of SEPA are you from ?

 

[TYoung]

I recommend that Jessed read the book Moving Water by Jason Randall. In the book there is a chapter called The Three-Dimensional River that does a great job showing what the current does to your nymphs under the surface. In order to become a good nymph fisher you need to understand what is happening to your rig below your indicator.

 

[moon1284]

Not to derail the thread but I'll agree to disagree that nymphing is more difficult. I can take someone who never fished to a rifle and have them roll casting a thingAmabobber and into fish I'd less than an hour.

Even on a difficult river like the upper delaware, someone new to the sport can roll cast good a bobber rig good enough into a riffle to have a good shot at hooking a fish within 30 mins. I'm not sure I can get that same person into fish with a dry fly that quickly.

I'm not saying the guy will be an expert nympher in a day, but it's not hard to position someone in a stream where they can lob a bobber 15-20' into a riffle and have a good shot at hooking a fish.

 

[ryansheehan]

Moon, not sure I agree or disagree but I don't think anyone said nymphing is harder, just different. They each have different challenges but I wouldn't describe either as easier. As far as rolling indicators and catching a fish within a half hour on the D....well not sure about that.

 

[cms829]

My opinion is, who cares.

I can crush fish euro nymphing. As long as I've got everything right. Or I can cast all day with no interest. You still have to dial it in to be consistent. Thats the game - consistency and confidence. Not being lucky and just lobbing into a riffle blindly with no thought regarding your rig. Reading the water is a big deal to be consistent as well.

Dries are AWESOME. Streamers can be INSANE. And nymphing can pull up some big fish, big numbers, and be fun as hell- especially euro nymphing when done right and you feel the take. Its all good, whatever or however you wanna do it!

*sorry for bringing back a 5 month old thread. But think I made a point.

 

[foxtrapper1972]

Because crushing fish is what it is all about

 

[bigslackwater]

Jessed mentioned that tangles were a problem with the double fly rig. Another poster said try one fly for a while. I totally agree with that for the simple fact that he may be spending too much time fixing his rig and not fishing. Your odds of catching fish decrease big time the longer you have your line out the water. If you add up all the time you spend re-rigging, 3 hours of fishing might add up to being only an hour and half of actual fishing. Keep in mind others have mentioned tweaking the rig quite a bit for each situation. This also takes time. Moral of the story, practice your knots and get quick at it so you can get your fly in the water and catch fish!

 

[outsider]

Cliché Meister. Forgot "game changer".

 

[outsider]

I fish the Tully several times a week, unless it's blown out with high water. Been fishing it for almost 40 years. This year was an oddity regarding the caddis hatch, and I relied more on sub-surface caddis imitations than any other year. Yes you can catch fish there in any water situations with sub-surface imitations, from riffles to slow water pools. In fact, most of the fish I caught there this year were in slow pools.

So, I will lend this advice:

1) Caddis pupa are not static creatures, although I do catch fish dead-drifting a pupa. I cast upstream, fish the drift, then swing and/or create movement upward. Remember, they are trying to get to the surface to hatch into an adult.

2) I start with 5X tippet when they first appear in early May, then switch to 6x as the season progresses for 2 reasons: they become wary, and the caddis are larger in the early season.

3) Your imitation may be the downfall. If you want to see flies that I use and discuss tactics, send a pm. I live in Berks County near the TCO shop, you are welcome to stop by.

4) Do not have great expectations there if the water is around 300 cfs or above.

Every year I meet people fishing the Tully, and I help them. When I was young, I took in as much advice as I could. And I always took time to stop fishing to see what was going on around me. Seems like so many do not do this today, rely on what they can find on the internet.