Help me get a handle on this

[Baron]

I recently bought an El Cheapo Rod. Its pretty and will continue to do skill-level appropriate chores for me. While looking at the choices available it was like a walking through a blizzard of info. Not having much experience to draw on, and with the help of forum members, I chose a conservative offering that will serve me until my skills and quarry require an upgrade. Since I travel (fly) allot it is 4piece.
Handles choiceswere the most confusing to me and I'm wondering if some of you could shed some light on the choices you've made.
I have a cigar handle on the old Martin. It feels best.
I had a half-well on the the last two rods. I liked them fine but moved the hand forward allot.
The third choice confuses me. A full-well seems over-kill. perhaps I'd like it after a bit but it doesn't fell natural.
Are there technique related reasons for each type or does it merely come down to preference.

 

[redietz]

In general, the cigar grip is usually used on smaller rods.

The reverse half wells (note the 's', Wells was the name of the man who suggested flaring the ends of the grip) as pictured in the bottom grip you show is popular today because it hides the hood in an up-locking reel seat. It's also called a "western" grip.

A half wells grip (not pictured) has the flare at the rod end of the grip, rather than the reel end, and provides a place to put your finger or thumb and is usually only seen on rods with down locking grips.

Full wells grips are usually found on heavier rods, and is the grip least likely to slip or be pulled out of your hand (that's the theory anyway). It seems to be the most comfortable for those rods.

Partly it's convention, partly it's a matter of taste. I find the half wells to be the most comfortable, but you don't see it very much any more.

 

[bigjohn58]

In all reality its just personal preference. I build quite a few rods and its really whatever the customer or myself wants. Most of your lighter rods you see reverse half wells (western grips) and cigars, and your heavier rods tend to get full wells.

 

[Baron]

"A half wells grip (not pictured) has the flare at the rod end of the grip, rather than the reel end, and provides a place to put your finger or thumb and is usually only seen on rods with down locking grips. "


Thanks Bob. So what is commonly called a Half Wells is actually a reverse Wells in a historical perspective?

True Half wells is in the photo below?

Does any one have a good reason not to have a cigar handle on a 7or 8wt rod? Ive seen some by Garrison that are nice and large. I've seen some that are short. Is the a dis advantage to the cigar?

 

[Bamboozle]

Baron wroteoes any one have a good reason not to have a cigar handle on a 7or 8wt rod? Ive seen some by Garrison that are nice and large. I've seen some that are short. Is the a dis advantage to the cigar?

Absolutely NOT!!

It is really a matter of preference and nothing else. I personally hate Wells grips of any flavor and wouldn't buy a rod with one, even a 12 weight.

Forever Orvis offered nothing but cigar-style grips on bamboo, glass & graphite of any size. Right now they have one of my bamboo rods, an 8'6" 6wt getting a nice new Orvis style SLIM cigar grip. It is just what my hand likes. Most other Eastern rod makers also offered the same style grips.

I credit Fenwick and other western rod companies for popularizing the Wells type grips and uplocking reel seats, another thing I despise. Now it is hard to find rods without both.

Pick what feels right in you hand while casting and fishing. Nothing else matters and is just marketing hype.

 

[Baron]

Why are so many handles long?

When cruising google I noticed, as Bob said above, that most cigars are on smaller setups and some of them are also short.

My thoughts are that the longer handle is to allow the user to find a balance point that works with different reel weights.

What is wrong with uplocking reel seats?

 

[redietz]

Baron wrote:

True Half wells is in the photo below?

Does any one have a good reason not to have a cigar handle on a 7or 8wt rod? Ive seen some by Garrison that are nice and large. I've seen some that are short. Is the a dis advantage to the cigar?

Yes, that's a true half wells.

I think one of the reasons that you usually see cigar grips more on lighter rods is that you need to hold heavier rods with a tighter grasp, and your hand can cramp if you're holding at the same diameter for long periods (I know mine does.) With half or full wells grips you can vary the diameter you're gripping by sliding you hand a bit forward or backward to get some relief. With lighter rods, your grip isn't so tight, and the cigar grip doesn't fatigue it. Not everyone grasps the rod same way, so the cigar grip doesn't bother them in heavier rods as much. Personal preference is going to vary.

To answer you other question about what's wrong with an up-locking reel seat, the answer is nothing really. Nor is there anything wrong with down-locking. They just balance the rod a bit differently. (although balance isn't important to every one.) A down locking seat puts the reel further back, and and you can balance a heavier rod with a lighter reel. With the advent of light graphite rods, this became less of an issue, and up-locking reel seats became more popular. Down locking is becoming somewhat more popular again with the Euro nymphing folks, because they need to balance a long rod and keep the rod tip up. Again, personal preference is a big factor.

 

[Bamboozle]

Baron wrote:
Why are so many handles long?

When cruising google I noticed, as Bob said above, that most cigars are on smaller setups and some of them are also short.

My thoughts are that the longer handle is to allow the user to find a balance point that works with different reel weights.

What is wrong with uplocking reel seats?

First, consider popularity as a factor in any choices offered in fishing tackle. Companies sell what people are accustomed to seeing and is popular.

40 years ago, you would have been hard pressed to find a production rod of more than 2 or 3 pieces with an uplocking reel seat or a reel seat with a fancy wood insert, two locking rings, nickel silver hardware, fancy stripper guides or one that threw 2 or 3wt lines and came in 6 pieces.

Then you have rod action and weight as selling points, fast, faster, fastest; light, lighter, lightest...

...the list goes on and on and none of has anything to do with how many fish you catch, it is what is popular, sells and cuts down on component inventory, even in the highest end rod category.

As an example, not too many years ago, Winston Rod Company offered up-locking, down-locking and a BUNCH of different woods inserts on their rods as an option when ordering. You could even request a different grip shape. Now, you basically get up-locking or nothing and one wood choice. Even the $3500 bamboo rods only offer 3 wood choices but up-locking only.

Why, because it is easier and more profitable to make rods on a production line and keep options to a minimum, NOT because one kind of reel seat or grip style is better than another. Grip shape & size is the same thing. Rod companies once sold 8'6" - 9'6" bamboo rods that weighed 2 -6 times what a 9' graphite rod weighs with thin cigar grips. Now people will tell you you need a big grip on a 2 oz graphite rod...

In regards to grip length, the same reasons apply and MANY rod companies offering mid to lower priced rods use pre-formed grips. In other words, they don't build their own grips from cork rings but instead buy already made grips from a supplier which they just slide on and glue to the blank. And of course the grip suppliers, offer what sells. That's another reason why you see so many of the same sized and style grips on so many different rods.

Don't over-think it, just pick a rod based on how it feels in your hand and if it does what you want it to do and go fishing!!

 

[Baron]

Roger that!

“Don't over-think it, just pick a rod based on how it feels in your hand and if it does what you want it to do and go fishing!!“

This conversation may seem trifle but it tells me that there is more to it than ‘looks alone’.
I was thinking that at the high end of the spectrum, in the heaviest one-handed rigs, Say 8-9wt, the Full Wells may be better two brace with thumbs or two add a second hand. Thanks all.