Heavier rod recommendations

[TimMurphy]

Yeah that looks like a good idea. Does fiberglass have any downsides?

Dear Beweav,

There is one HUGE downside to fiberglass. When they were the rods of choice 50 years ago the fly line profiles and tapers were much thinner. Fiberglass rods have little itty-bitty guides, especially the stripping guides, that have a hard time throwing a modern fly line taper unless they are in the hands of a very skilled caster.

You could always use a Cortland 444 Peach or a Cortland Sylk to solve that problem. But realistically, buying a fiberglass rod to fish for redfish would be a total waste of money in today's world. Unless of course your guide sculls a pirogue boat out to the fish.

Buy a graphite rod and leave the fiberglass for putzing around.

Regards,

Tim Murphy

 

[Bamboozle]

Dear Beweave & Tim:

If you are not fishing a rod from the 1940's or older you won't likely find "itty-bitty guides" as plastic fly lines came into being in the 1950's.

That being said I own a couple of fly rods that are from the 1940's as well as a F.E. Thomas rod that is over 100 years old and until VERY recently I never fished anything other than a modern plastic fly line on any of them and never had an issue.

There are TONS of Fenwick glass rods out there and I don't know a single person who feels compelled to fish a Cortland SYLK line on any of them. I have an 1960's 8'6" 6wt Fenwick that I fish all the time with streamers for trout & bass and all I use is a regular SciAngler WF6...

Beweave:

Do yourself a favor and get on to Fiberglassflyrodders and ask all the questions you want. You will be blown away with the expertise and knowledge and how many folks are chasing bass & fish in the salt with glass and not just putzing around...

Sorry Tim, I couldn't resist.

 

[Fly-Swatter]

IMO, Fiberglass is not a great choice for most inshore saltwater fishing in FL. Depending on the time of year and area, you could be fishing to tailing reds or cruising schools of reds. In many cases, you will need to get casts out beyond 5- feet and get it out quickly. Graphite is MUCH lighter and faster. It lends itself better to long, quick, accurate casts that need to be repeated. In my experience, fiberglass is too heavy and slow to be the best tool for the job.

 

[Hackle]

I really appreciate all the input everybody! I’m going to have to get my hands on a couple rods and see what I enjoy casting the most.
While we are on that subject. Does anyone have any thoughts or opinions on fiberglass rods in heavier weights. I’ve seen some used Fenwick fiberglass rods around and was wondering how they would fish.

It's never wrong decision to buy a new rod. Fiberglass or not. 7 or 8 weight is a good rod for casting long lines and big flies. I don't think you could go wrong with an old used Fenwick that was taken care of.

 

[TimMurphy]

Dear Beweave & Tim:

If you are not fishing a rod from the 1940's or older you won't likely find "itty-bitty guides" as plastic fly lines came into being in the 1950's.

That being said I own a couple of fly rods that are from the 1940's as well as a F.E. Thomas rod that is over 100 years old and until VERY recently I never fished anything other than a modern plastic fly line on any of them and never had an issue.

There are TONS of Fenwick glass rods out there and I don't know a single person who feels compelled to fish a Cortland SYLK line on any of them. I have an 1960's 8'6" 6wt Fenwick that I fish all the time with streamers for trout & bass and all I use is a regular SciAngler WF6...

Beweave:

Do yourself a favor and get on to Fiberglassflyrodders and ask all the questions you want. You will be blown away with the expertise and knowledge and how many folks are chasing bass & fish in the salt with glass and not just putzing around...

Sorry Tim, I couldn't resist.

Dear Bamboozle,

I stand by my comment and offer proof.

A St Croix 711 Mojo Bass 7 weight side by side with a Shakespeare 1451 8'6" 7 weight from the mid-1960's. The stripper on the Shakespeare is much less than 1/2 the diameter of the stripper on the St Croix, and the St Croix has 2 stripping guides.

They didn't do that because they got a deal on Fuji stripping guides. They did that so today's thicker more limp fly lines will get gathered up and pass through the guides. Most modern 7 weight and up fly rods have larger guides and dual stripping guides for that reason.

Repetitive casting with a fiberglass rod in a heavier weight today is like golfing with persimmon woods. It's certainly possible, but you really have to want to do it.

Regards,

Tim Murphy

DSCF0391 by Tim Murphy, on Flickr

IMG_20240104_111935 by Tim Murphy, on Flickr

 

[rancid waders]

I think Rayjeff designed the Echo BAG glass series to deliver the fish food with modern fly line.

 

[Bamboozle]

Dear Bamboozle,

I stand by my comment and offer proof.

A St Croix 711 Mojo Bass 7 weight side by side with a Shakespeare 1451 8'6" 7 weight from the mid-1960's. The stripper on the Shakespeare is much less than 1/2 the diameter of the stripper on the St Croix, and the St Croix has 2 stripping guides.

They didn't do that because they got a deal on Fuji stripping guides. They did that so today's thicker more limp fly lines will get gathered up and pass through the guides. Most modern 7 weight and up fly rods have larger guides and dual stripping guides for that reason.

Repetitive casting with a fiberglass rod in a heavier weight today is like golfing with persimmon woods. It's certainly possible, but you really have to want to do it.

Regards,

Tim Murphy

What about the snakes??

A more apples to apples comparison would be to compare the stripper guide on a modern 7 weight trout rod (if there is such a thing) to the St. Croix and compare that to the Shakespeare because the 1451 wasn't supposed to be a "Mojo Bass" rod throwing fat bass bug lines.

For several decades oversized stripper guides have been the norm with some builders, especially on rods for species other than trout because of marketing. The same thing goes for snake guides with some opting for single foot guides.

However many don't bother. The late Tom Morgan who owned and designed rods for Winston was an advocate of smaller guides to reduce line slap

I have more than few contemporary rods of fiberglass, bamboo & glass, all deigned for plastic lines and I guarantee that all but possibly one, have stripper guides about the size found on your Shakespeare, even the rods that throw heavier lines.

I can happily report zero issues casting with any of them.

I'll give you that fiberglass is heavier but we are talking ounces, not pounds. Maybe I'm used to it but when guys are trout fishing for trout with 10 foot and longer rods, it starts to make even less of a difference.

 

[Fredrick]

I need some advice on buying a heavier weight rod. I primarily want to get a heavier rod to fish for smallmouth. I just want to extra power to throw some bigger files.
But I also am going to have the opportunity to fish the flats in the gulf for Redfish. I was looking into getting a 7 wt but I don’t know if that would be heavy enough for the redfish. Any thoughts?

Definitely go with the 8, most get to fish when they can, not when the conditions are perfect. There will be days that you will need that extra punch into the wind if you don't have it, you will be quick to go back home to your couch.

 

[Beweav]

Thanks guys for weighing in on this! I've appreciated all the input!

 

[chief17]

I don't know anything about salt water. But I do have a TFO BC Big Fly 8 wt for big streamers and really really like it. I was fishing with a guy who just got an R8 Core (7 wt I think it was) and I much preferred the TFO. Granted, I have no idea what line he was running on the R8, but I just didn't care for it.

 

[JeffK]

To me it is a matter of taste and casting stroke. Fiberglass rods are generally slower which means in many cases they are more relaxing to cast - and I fly fish often to relax. However, if you cast with a faster stroke learned with graphite rods you may be forcing your casts with a fiberglass rod. Just go with the flow and let the rod do the work and it can be a treat to fish with them. You also feel the fight more with slower rods.

Glass rods are generally heavier than graphite so are more applicable to shorter, lighter rods for trout fishing. Everyone has their own cut-off, but I like glass rods 8' or shorter. With shorter rods 8 wts are OK. However, I find 9' 8wts glass rods to be heavy beasts and I can't imagine a 10' nymphing rod in fiberglass. Being slower you can fish heavier lines more softly. For example, the classic light line flyrod when I was fishing in the 70's was the Fenwick 756 - a 7 1/2' 6 wt. Who would call a 6 wt light these days, but I went back to it this year on limestoners for small dries and was surprised how pleasant it was to fish and it got the job done.

I haven't really had any trouble with my old glass rods (Fenwick, Phillipson, Browning most in rotation; learned on old white Shakespeares but prefer others these days. Actually preferred Fenwick in 1970, but couldn't always afford them) on modern lines. I usually use Cortland 444 DT (or the Hook & Hackle lines); never warmed up to the Sylk lines.