Gore tex vs other breathable membranes?

[kbobb]

Hi folks,
Wondering how the other breathable membranes used in waders, etc, stack up compared to Gore Tex brand. I imagine the chemists/engineers have come up with membranes that perform as well as the Gore tex stuff by now? Especially regarding durability and longevity.
Are there other factors, besides the Gore tex membrane/name, why lower level waders (ie Simms Freestone) are less expensive than the top tier waders that use Gore tex (such as the other materials used in wader construction)?
Or does Gore tex have some magic/performance that the other membranes can't match.
Thanks.

 

[pcray1231]

In my experience, it's hit or miss. In these membranes, there's a tradeoff between longevity and breathability. Gore-tex falls on the longevity, heavy side of things. There are ones that say they are more breathable than Gore-Tex, and they're not wrong. In waders, being completely leak free for a long time matters. But in say a light rain coat for someone who intends to jog in it and is going to be sweating profusely, better breathability and weight reduction may be more important, and a few drops of water getting through isn't such a big deal.

That's not to say there aren't other membranes that also fall on the longevity side of it, and hopefully a wader manufacturer is going to choose a proper membrane for the purpose.

One thing Gore is VERY good at, is that they have extreme specifications for seams and construction. So while for multiple brands of membrane, the fabric itself may be more or less equivalent, you know if it carries the Gore-Tex name, then the garment is constructed well, with stitching and seam tape meeting Gore's standards. Gore will go into the manufacturer and audit them and make sure they are using the Gore process for joining pieces of fabric. That's what you're paying for. For many other brands, they sell fabric to whoever buys it, and the manufacturer decides how to construct a garment out of it. Some are good, some aren't, you can make a crappy wader out of good fabric if the seams rather than the fabric is what leaks. So it's or miss.

So the Gore name is kind of an insurance policy, and whether it's worth the price premium is up to you.

It comes down to how much you trust the manufacturer of said garment. If it has a Gore-Tex tag, that's basically Gore saying not only did they use our fabric, but we've checked their construction procedures and approve, and we audit them on a regular basis to make sure they don't deviate from those procedures.

 

[afishinado]

GoreTex was patented in 1976 and the patent expired in 1997.

GorTex makes premium quality fabrics and you can't go wrong buying a breathable garment like waders, raincoat, etc. that employs the GorTex membrane because they assure the quality of the fabric before they put their name on it. But the premium quality commands a premium price.

With all that being said, there are many other breathable membrane fabrics that do the same thing as GorTex. Some are more durable, some are more breathable, the two are really mutually exclusive for the most part, so everything is a compromise.

My experience has been, the higher the price the better the overall performance, but the choice is yours to make.

 

[pcray1231]

There are also multiple types of Gore-tex. Gore-tex Pro, Gore-Tex, Gore-Tex Paclite, etc. Again playing with the backings and such to cover the durability vs. breathability spectrum. And there's 1, 2, 3, 5 layer versions of each of those.

Gore-tex was first. They are no longer the only. When other players came on board, to keep their "premium" name they went all out on governing manufacturers, and in addition to having top of the line fabrics they also make sure are put together with top of the line methods. They are the premium.

There is stuff out there that's just as good at a better price. There's also stuff out there that is inferior. And because the manufacturer of the garment itself is part of the equation, whether it's quality or not depends on more than just the brand name of the fabric. But, if it has that black tag, yes, it's both quality fabric and quality construction. If it doesn't, it's a bit more of a gamble, how much do you trust the manufacturer to pick a good fabric and put it together well?

In the fishing industry, and in outdoors sports in general, the focus is on quality and as Afish says, there's a decent correlation between quality and price. In the fashion world that isn't true at all, lol.

 

[a23fish]

I didn't realize that Gore-Tex set standards for the garment construction process to ensure their material wasn't compromised by poor techniques. Probably why all of my Gore-Tex products performed so well over the years. However, I'm interested in performance of similar fabrics used by other manufacturers. Everyone seems to have their own version marketed to imply world class performance.

I'd like to hear from other members on what fabrics, by what manufacturers, perform as well as the original Gore-Tex. And equally important for those considering new waders or jackets, what fabrics by what manufacturers don't perform as well. That would be good information to have, given the cost of waders & jackets.

 

[bigjohn358]

My experience with GoreTex is that it is more durable. It is a tougher material but it is definitely heavier and I still sweat in it when its warm. The non Goretex material in waders and other waterproof products that is advertised as "breathable" is definitely a lighter material, less durable, but is more breatheable in my opinion. I sweat like crazy when its warmer and wearing Goretex. Its not as breathable as people say it is. I have a pair of Simms G3 Goretex waders I wear most of the time. I fish a lot of places that are off the beaten path and can run into jagger bushes. They hold up pretty well. During the summer when its very warm and I know I'm not going off the beaten path I'll wear a pair of Redington waders that are so much lighter and breathable.

 

[afishinado]

I didn't realize that Gore-Tex set standards for the garment construction process to ensure their material wasn't compromised by poor techniques. Probably why all of my Gore-Tex products performed so well over the years. However, I'm interested in performance of similar fabrics used by other manufacturers. Everyone seems to have their own version marketed to imply world class performance.

I'd like to hear from other members on what fabrics, by what manufacturers, perform as well as the original Gore-Tex. And equally important for those considering new waders or jackets, what fabrics by what manufacturers don't perform as well. That would be good information to have, given the cost of waders & jackets.

Below is a list of some of the top waterproof breathable fabrics. Unfortunately picking the best one is a lot like choosing Sage or Winston or Scott or Orvis or Loomis or Hardy or T&T.......

You just have to muddle through the choices and pick the one that best suits your needs.

Good luck >

List of Waterproof and Breathable Fabrics - Outdoorguru %

The world of waterproof and breathable fabrics and membranes is divided in two: Gore-Tex % and the rest. This list sums up what is out there.

outdoorguru.com

 

[pcray1231]

Again, it has as much to do with who makes it, not what fabric it's made of.

It's fairly rare that I've had decent quality waders fail as a result of the material. It has happened on some bottom basement stuff. But more often, it's the seams that leak. And the seams have nothing to do with the fabric itself (though Gore does demand their manufacturers make good seams).

You can get 2 different garments with "Cabelas Dry Plus" fabric, for instance, and have 2 entirely different experiences. And cabelas makes nothing. When you dig into it, one was made for them by one company, and the other by another company, and you look at the seams and see a significant difference in how it was stitched or taped or ironed or however they join them.

 

[Bamboozle]

I hope those $1000 Simms G4Z waders are made out of the best stuff...

 

[falcon]

Come on .... they are only 995.00
Yikes!!!

 

[Bamboozle]

Come on .... they are only 995.00
Yikes!!!

They are $999.95 so they must have went up $4.95 since you posted.

 

[kbobb]

Thanks for the replies folks - very educational. I have had 3 pairs of simms guide/G3 waders so far and they have been great (at $250 - $350). However now they are $700 for G3 and this is getting beyond my reasonable limit for toys. If I made my living fishing that would be different - this is just a pastime and it has reached the point where I want to look for a lower priced quality wader, and it appears it will be made of something other than Gore tex.
In perspective, it is still cheaper tha a $100K bass boat!

 

[bigjohn358]

Thanks for the replies folks - very educational. I have had 3 pairs of simms guide/G3 waders so far and they have been great (at $250 - $350). However now they are $700 for G3 and this is getting beyond my reasonable limit for toys. If I made my living fishing that would be different - this is just a pastime and it has reached the point where I want to look for a lower priced quality wader, and it appears it will be made of something other than Gore tex.
In perspective, it is still cheaper tha a $100K bass boat!

There are 2 different styles of the G3 waders now. One is still like $500 or $550. I couldn't quite tell what the difference is other than color of the front pouch. I haven't looked into them that well hoping I don't need a pair of waders for at least few more years! These prices are crazy!

 

[a23fish]

Below is a list of some of the top waterproof breathable fabrics. Unfortunately picking the best one is a lot like choosing Sage or Winston or Scott or Orvis or Loomis or Hardy or T&T.......

You just have to muddle through the choices and pick the one that best suits your needs.

Good luck >

List of Waterproof and Breathable Fabrics - Outdoorguru %

The world of waterproof and breathable fabrics and membranes is divided in two: Gore-Tex % and the rest. This list sums up what is out there.

outdoorguru.com

I never knew there were so many variations. Most of which I've never heard of. Gotta love technology. And marketing.

 

[Kyle]

my waders will always be gortex. but ill cheap out on other brands for my wading jacket.

 

[Skook]

Quote from the article linked to below:

The most breathable type of Gore-Tex is Gore-Tex Pro either with 2 layers or 3. A jacket made from Gore-Tex Pro Shell is one of the most breathable waterproof jackets available. It has a rough hydrostatic head rating of 28,000 mm of water and a breathability rating of 25,000 grams of water vapor per 24 hours. This is almost twice as breathable as Gore-Tex Paclite fabric.

I've seen other similar articles over the years, and Gore-Tex is usually at or near the top in these waterproof/breathability ratings, along with eVent. However, according to this article, it seems that once a membrane reaches a certain rating in either of these two categories, anything more is sort of unnecessary.

Gore-Tex Ratings

Here is an article explaining how ratings work:

Ratings

 

[DomR]

Thanks for the replies folks - very educational. I have had 3 pairs of simms guide/G3 waders so far and they have been great (at $250 - $350). However now they are $700 for G3 and this is getting beyond my reasonable limit for toys. If I made my living fishing that would be different - this is just a pastime and it has reached the point where I want to look for a lower priced quality wader, and it appears it will be made of something other than Gore tex.
In perspective, it is still cheaper tha a $100K bass boat!

I've had good luck with Simms lower end waders. I'm on 5 years with my Freestones after getting 10 years out of their predecessor model. Only issue I had was a seam leak out of the box, Simms replaced them and it's been bliss ever since. Any other leaks have been self caused by my oafish self barreling through brush instead of going around it and falling down embankments. All those were cured by Aquaseal.

 

[dryflyguy]

Gore tex has always been the best performing breathable fabric for me - even with hunting/hiking boots.

I've had good luck with the cheaper Simms Headwater waders - which are lighter than the G3's and G4's. And more comfortable IMO
Have 2 pair - one about 5 years old, and a 2nd that's about 8.
Probably have a least a whole tube of aqua seal in repairs on each.
But they're still usable, just not quite as breathable as they were when new for sure.
I don't believe they're made anymore, though......