good article on brookie restoration (w/ image of WVA brookie, big as a largemouth)

[geebee]

I would think that the best records would be found with those who first studied the native Indians.

I know that is the case in southern Maine. Its hard to imagine now that every single tree you see in CT, RI,MA and southern Nh & ME are all new growth.

A wampanoag Indian told me that in southern new England that there are no trees older than 120 years old.

Its to their records I'd look for photos, stories etc.

 

[Lonewolve]

GeeBee ,
there is a stand of old growth in Maine I can Pm you info.My fiance',boxer and I forded a river to find it also a pretty good river to fish there.

 

[bikerfish]

there are quite a few remanants of old growth here in pa.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_old_growth_forests#United_States

 

[franklin]

geebee wrote:
I would think that the best records would be found with those who first studied the native Indians.

I know that is the case in southern Maine. Its hard to imagine now that every single tree you see in CT, RI,MA and southern Nh & ME are all new growth.

A wampanoag Indian told me that in southern new England that there are no trees older than 120 years old.

Its to their records I'd look for photos, stories etc.

There used to be a zinc mine in center valley that had one mine hole from the 1800s. It was probably 150 feet deep about 100' x 100' square. It had monstrous hemlock logs used to shore up the sides that were 3 to 4 feet in diameter and at least 100 feet long. they must have been 200 feet tall when cut. Back then these would not have been shipped in but were cut within a reasonable distance of the site. Likely off South Mountain. Today this spot lies under Rt 78 near the LLBean store.

 

[Chaz]

The_Sasquatch wrote:
Will/could we ever see brookies like that again? Did we ever have brookies like that in PA?

It's open to question, but I'd bet all the limestone streams had big brookies and some of the big freestone streams had big brookies. Whether they were ever more then about 20 inches, is the big question.

 

[Chaz]

I'm of the firm belief that hatcheries had no role in the recovery of brook trout. I believe that they survived because there were places that weren't defiled by loggers, tanneries and coal mines. That even streams that were trees were removed completly up the the extreme head waters still head some trout.
Those trout survived and brook trout being quite prolific, started reproducing and eventually the trees regrew and the populations would recover to the extent we see brookies today, not because of hatcheries, but despite hatcheries.The Fish Commission did everything in their power to keep trout fishing alive, by stocking foreign fish, but still brookies survived. They just aren't as big as they used to be because they are forced to live in moslty infertile headwater streams.
By 1900 the forests had been cut 3 times in many places, first they cut the pines, then the hemlocks, then the hardwoods that replaced the other 2 species. Audubon writes about how the Poconos were already being cut during the late 1820's. In my local watershed the forest were removed for farming 300 years ago. Wm. Penns did a very good job of attracting people to his new colony.
As for coal mines there is only a small percentage of streams toatly dead because of AMD, the number giver is 2900 miles plus or minus.

 

[Twofly]

If your ever at Leonard Harris overlook in the canyon on pine creek,read the plaque that talks about the natural history on the pine creek valley before the logging boom and try to comprehend the tremendous towering Forrest's of conifers that not only shaded the canyon but the thick layer of the loam built up for centuries on the forest floor held water like a giant cold wet sponge. It is told in stories that pine ran high and cold even in hottesy most arid summers. After every single conifer was taken this loamy base caught fire and destroyed right down to the rock. After this event they called the pine creek valley Pennslyvania desert. I can only dream and wonder what the fishing must have been like.

 

[Chaz]

Phillip Tome talks about catching trout in a weir just below Slate Run in the 1790's in July in his book; "Pioneer Life; Thirsty Years a Hunter." He told some tales in his book, but I believe that in this case it was true. He also mentioned Susquehanna Salmon, which today are walleyes but back then there were no walleyes in the Susquehanna drainage so the had to be either big trout or shad.

There are a lot of times back in the old days they used trout and salmon somewhat interchangeably, but not always. I always wondered how there is a Salmon Creek in the NF when there was never a salmon native to PA?

 

[osprey]

Im originally from out west pa . but worked and lived down east for a long time and found lots of good stuff on local brookies in the local libraries. ALL those beautiful limestoners were all big brookie streams from the LeTort n Breeches to believe it or not the Conodogguinnet sp? which was considered the best in the world. This was all prior to the logging and then the mining. Check old newspapers that still exist.......mostly on disk.

 

[troutbert]

Do you remember from the old newspaper articles how large the brookies were in the limestone streams in the Cumberland Valley?