Golf Courses, Stream Conservation

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troutbert

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For those of you who golf, have you seen any changes over the years/decades regarding stream management in golf courses?

It used to be pretty bad. Streams really wrecked where they flowed through golf courses.

Have practices changed? Do they use riparian buffers now?

Has anyone ever studied golf course management in college? Do they now teach anything about management for stream conservation?
 
Interesting topic.

Not a golfer here and my only consistent experience fishing through a golf course is one particular location. In this case, little has changed over the last couple decades and they're still mowing right up to the edge of the stream in some sections. My guess would be that riparian zones might be a tough sell to GC designers in that, once vegetation reaches a certain height, that players lines of sight would be disrupted (but I dunno). I think it's possible to have a good riaprian zone and still keep vegetation relatively low.

Hhmmm. . .
 
The thing about gulf streams is all the weed killer and other things to keep the grass looking good washes into the stream.
 
I have a number of courses by me that I pass on a daily, or almost daily, basis. I don't see much of a visible change over the years. The course outside my office (been here for 20 years) is no different than when I moved in . It has a stream flowing through the property with several "ponds" to serve as water hazards. They often look almost blue with the chemicals that wash in them.
 
franklin wrote:
I have a number of courses by me that I pass on a daily, or almost daily, basis. I don't see much of a visible change over the years. The course outside my office (been here for 20 years) is no different than when I moved in . It has a stream flowing through the property with several "ponds" to serve as water hazards. They often look almost blue with the chemicals that wash in them.

Franklin, The blue color is likely just a dye used to control pond vegetation. One day when you become an actual pond owner, you will know these things. ;-)
 
FarmerDave wrote:
franklin wrote:
I have a number of courses by me that I pass on a daily, or almost daily, basis. I don't see much of a visible change over the years. The course outside my office (been here for 20 years) is no different than when I moved in . It has a stream flowing through the property with several "ponds" to serve as water hazards. They often look almost blue with the chemicals that wash in them.

Franklin, The blue color is likely just a dye used to control pond vegetation. One day when you become an actual pond owner, you will know these things. ;-)

When I look out and see the blue ponds I have this urge to stock some goldfish. Do you know what the chemical is?
 
Probably.

But until you have your own pond and learn the secret handshake...

;-)

It's probably just Aquashade or some other kind of dye.

Not a weed killer, just a weed prevention. Blocks the UV which inhibits plant growth.

There are other things that I am aware of that contain copper which actually kills weeds and does turn the water a bluish color, but if you are seeing bright blue, it's likely just a dye.

Doesn't turn the fish blue as far as I know.;-)

Those others would be things like Copper Sulfate which might be regulated now. Not sure. Could also be Cutrine Plus which is readily available and contains way less copper.

My pond is covered in duck weed right now. Pretty ugly, but I don't think the fish mind.

Don't get the dye or the cutrine plus on your hands unless you like that smurfy look.
 
I enjoy yanking huge largemouths from the golf course ponds at night. Is that wrong?
 
I don't these two things go together except when courses create ponds and you can fish for bass where none existed before. Florida is ripe with these.
 
Did anyone ever see the guy fly fishing for tarpon at a golf course pond that was fed by a little creek into the ocean?
 
If not here's the link

https://youtu.be/w275VazaD9w
 
Dave_W wrote:
Interesting topic.

Not a golfer here and my only consistent experience fishing through a golf course is one particular location. In this case, little has changed over the last couple decades and they're still mowing right up to the edge of the stream in some sections. My guess would be that riparian zones might be a tough sell to GC designers in that, once vegetation reaches a certain height, that players lines of sight would be disrupted (but I dunno). I think it's possible to have a good riaprian zone and still keep vegetation relatively low.

Hhmmm. . .

Couple things I noticed when I played a lot of golf. Many older muni courses had streams flowing through that might have brookie water potential. In most cases the streams were in areas of play and mowed to the stream edge. These were generally designed many years ago and allowing the riparian areas to grow up would either impeded play or be subject to countless lost balls whose owners tend to "mow" down the habitat while searching for lost balls. To redesign the course to minimize these impacts and include riparian zones would likely be cost prohibitive.

What I have noticed is that a number of courses (at least in my area) have been redesigned as part of housing developments where the course is laid out around the houses. These often include riparian areas around water. So in these you get the improvement of the riparian zone and the bad news of a bunch of houses close by. These often are upscale with owners (or HOA) who landscape and use plenty of chemicals.
 
Golf courses do have "rough" as part of challenge of the course, don't they?

Similar to the challenge of water traps and sand traps?

I think I've seen photos and articles of golf competitions where they hit the ball into thick vegetation.

Couldn't they use riparian buffers as part of the "rough?"

(If my terminology is wrong, let me know. I'm not a golfer.)

Also, if you look at the grounds overall, not all of the land is part of the course.

In those areas, are they using riparian buffers?

At a few courses I've seen, it does look like there are places where they could add riparian buffers without interfering with play.

But I wonder if riparian buffers are even in their minds at all. If they've ever heard of the concept.

The main thing, maybe, is whether they are taught this. People study golf course management and design at universities.

If you took those courses and got your degree, in the 4 years that you were there, would the profs ever tell you about the importance of riparian buffers along streams?
 
troutbert wrote:
Golf courses do have "rough" as part of challenge of the course, don't they?

Similar to the challenge of water traps and sand traps?

I think I've seen photos and articles of golf competitions where they hit the ball into thick vegetation.

Couldn't they use riparian buffers as part of the "rough?"

(If my terminology is wrong, let me know. I'm not a golfer.)

Also, if you look at the grounds overall, not all of the land is part of the course.

In those areas, are they using riparian buffers?

At a few courses I've seen, it does look like there are places where they could add riparian buffers without interfering with play.

But I wonder if riparian buffers are even in their minds at all. If they've ever heard of the concept.

The main thing, maybe, is whether they are taught this. People study golf course management and design at universities.

If you took those courses and got your degree, in the 4 years that you were there, would the profs ever tell you about the importance of riparian buffers along streams?

There are courses designed for what is called target golf. These are sometimes highlighted in adds showing large expanses of natural areas with groomed fairways and green areas. They are great to look at but for the average golfer they can be painful as they extract a high toll when you get into that "scrub".

In addition searching for balls in high rough adds time to a round of golf and backs up play for everyone.

So the majority of courses are unlikely to change.

New courses tend to have riparian buffers built into the designs. These tend to be middle to upper end courses.
 
tb - I didn't go to school for golf course design/management, but I've been a golfer since a kid, played dozens of courses across PA, and worked at a golf course for seven years in high school and college, before getting a "real" job. :hammer:

I'll try to give a breakdown in non-golfer terms...

Riparian buffers on streams just isn't a priority to a golf course owner/designer. In most cases it's probably not even considered, but if it were, the impact of creating such a buffer would be considered first and foremost in regard to how it impacted the course...both from an aesthetic standpoint and a functional standpoint of how it would affect how the course is played. If creating a riparian buffer would simultaneously achieve the desired aesthetics and course playability then yeah, they'd do it. If not, they wouldn't sacrifice those golf traits for sake of the trouts.

Functionally, I think this is what you end up seeing a lot on most golf courses...

If the stream in question runs parallel to the direction of play of the hole, to one side of the hole or the other, you're much more likely to see a riparian buffer of some kind...either in the form of allowing the natural trees/woods to surround the stream or allowing the grass to grow up higher next to the stream. These buffers will keep some balls from getting into the stream, speeding up the pace of play for the average player, and if a ball is hit that far offline, it was already a bad shot, and you're not penalizing a good shot by having players have to deal with tall grass or trees down the intended direction of play down the fairway.

If the stream crosses the direction of play of the hole, it's generally a different deal. The course wants players to see the scenic stream flowing across the fairway from the tee box. The reasoning for this is two fold. One, most courses like to showcase their water hazards, and often a course's signature hole or holes are built around their water hazards. (These are the pictures you see as the background on the course's scorecard or as the homepage on their website.) Having a riparian buffer would take away from the aesthetics of being able to see the stream as you play the hole. Secondly, when a stream crosses the intended direction of play of a hole, the stream is generally the main hazard players have to deal with when playing the hole. Meaning, the course wants the player to be able to see what the hazard is, and adopt strategy to hit the proper shot to avoid it. If the player is successful in doing so, and hits a good shot, the course doesn't want to penalize the player by having grass, trees, or other obstacles in the line of play of the hole that would interfere with an otherwise good shot that avoided the water hazard. In a lot less words perhaps...It's kind of sneaky to "hide" a stream that crosses the fairway behind some tall grass, and kind of sinister to put trees in the middle of the fairway.

The above applies up to and including higher end courses. The very, very top end courses that are capable of holding professional level tournaments and events are a little different in terms of how they're managed. These courses often do intend to punish "good" shots in specific instances in order to add more strategy into the fold for good golfers, and as a byproduct you sometimes see more riparian buffers "hiding" water hazards.

I'm a golfer and a FFer in favor of trout stream conservation. Unfortunately, those two things are often at odds with one another. I think the bigger issue golf courses create, more so than lack of riparian buffers, is the damming of streams to make ponds on the course...Both to design the course around (aesthetics and playability again), and to draw water from for irrigation. I think if streams were allowed to flow free there would be much less of an impact to the downstream watershed, even if stretches through the golf course weren't protected with riparian buffers. A lot of courses impound tiny first order tributaries to form their ponds, sometimes impounding the same tributary in a series of ponds, effectively ruining that stream (and perhaps the stream it runs into) in many cases for miles downstream. In a Summer like this in some parts of PA, they'll run their ponds (and the tributary that formed them) dry irrigating the course.

Sorry for the long response, but hope it helps explain the golf course theory behind their stream management...Golf and Trout are two things I'm passionate about!
 
Thanks. Long is good, if there is content.

This is interesting:

"I'm a golfer and a FFer in favor of trout stream conservation. Unfortunately, those two things are often at odds with one another."

No doubt that is true. But that is also true of just about all land uses other than wilderness. Farming, housing development, industry, retail, parks, timber production, etc.

But, nevertheless, we have seen some progress in riparian buffers.

It would really help if the importance of riparian buffers was taught in the golf course management courses.

I also wonder if this is taught in the parks and rec courses. To the future managers of municipal and county parks, etc.

 
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