Freestone vs. Limestone Streams (fish coloration,size and strength/weight) Long post

[Chaz]

The color of fish has much more to do with the light and the background in which they swim than diet genetics or anything else. And the least likely factor is whether a stream is a limestone stream or freestone stream.
I once caught a brookie at Hickory Run that was lying over some autumn leaves of many colors in a sun splashed pool. It had very pale coloration where the sun was shining on the leaves and was darker everywhere else. It was very strange indeed.
As for spawning colors I've found some trout in streams color up only for spawning, about a week before, and lose their color right after spawning they are very silvery the rest of the year.. Others in freestone streams have a lot of color all year. Particularly brookies in the north east near Wilkes Barre.
Browns have so much variation I don't think you can say it is diet or environment at all. If you look at all the varieties in the Behnke Book you'll see many that look like trout from PA. But again so many strains of browns came from so many places that you can't really pin down the genetics without dna study. I know they all look beautiful in the limestone streams and I've caught plenty of them, but I've caught browns as brightly colored in freestone streams too.
My conclusion on browns is that unless you do the dna test you have no way of knowing the heritage of the fish. Ditto for brookies.
I think the amount of light reaching the stream where the trout is lying has more to do with color than, all other factors. I have caught browns from nearly black to bright silver, and the only difference was the amount of light reaching the bottom of the stream. The colors on the bottom have a lot to do with it too. Diet plays a role, but it is minor, it does however play a role in the color of the meat.

 

[osprey]

In my experience a brown trout that is feeding activly is a distinctly different shade/color than others in the same pool that aren't , has anyone else ever noticed this? Clarks Creek comes to mind as a good example and parts of the Breeches.

 

[MKern]

Chaz I normally agree 100% with you, but I think LS and FS makes a ton of difference because of diet.

I don't think a fish changes it's colors because it hovers over leaves for part of one day. However, Ido think that the trout knows how dark its is (or light) and chooses holding locations accordingly.

Trout and cameleons aren't related right?

I think that most fish swim up and down stretches of the stream; up to miles of the stream. Even in packed streams like Spring Creek. They definately swim enough to not change color only on one quarter-panel.

 

[Chaz]

There is absolutely a chameleon affect that trout exhibit. Within minutes of catching that was caught over the leaves the brookie returned to more normal colors as he lay resting. Try putting that real colorful try in a white cooler for several minutes, it will get very light in color very quickly.
Don't count on photos to render the colors of a fish to be the way you remember them as you caught the fish. The reason is the angle of light hitting the subject as you are taking the photo radically changes what the camera sees and captures. Try it sometime with the same fish; continually change the angle of the fish in relationship to the camera and direction of the light. Then take the photos home and view the result. Also you can see this with your eye if you watch closely as you rotate the fish in relation to the light.
Now as you fish a stream, take pictures of all the trout and take the time to take notes as soon as you release the fish so you can relate the photo to the notes. You will be better able to see the differences in individuals. Include in the notes where you caught each fish and what the lighting was.

As for the strains and the diet being factors, here is something to chew on. In the Perkiomen Drainage, there is what I'd call two different strains on browns. One has large black spots and very few if any red spots and is very silvery. If you look at the books they resemble Lock Levin Trout. The other strain is the more typical strain of browns I see in many freestone streams, olive back, buttery sides with a good mix of small black spots and lots of red spots including red adipose fins and red on the dorsal fin.

I catch a lot of browns in NC PA where I love to fish the freestone streams, and seasonally I don’t see much change in the color of the browns. Brookies are pretty colorful all year but the colors really come out during the spawning period. I’ve caught brookies in lakes that are silvery and washed out and many brookies that migrate from reservoirs look the same until they’ve been in the streams for a period of time.
The big advantage of of digital photography is that you can take photos very quickly and see the result instantly.

 

[PSUFishMenace]

BB101 sorry thought you meant the exposure on the camera. btw most of the time my phone takes horrible pictures anyway, i'm no photographer and I wasn't offended if that's what you thought. It would take something way over the line to offend me so don't worry about that.

I think they do have ability to change color fairly quickly as far as light and dark overall, but obviously they can't change spot color/location nearly as quickly. Sometimes it seems to me like trout are dull while they are resting or casually feeding but when they chase something big (like a streamer or spinner) for any kind of distance they suddenly turn much darker. Has anybody else noticed this?

 

[PSUFishMenace]

Chaz here is an example of what you are talking about with the camera changing how a fish looks. These two pics are of the same fish.

 

[MKern]

Chaz wrote: "Now as you fish a stream, take pictures of all the trout and take the time to take notes as soon as you release the fish so you can relate the photo to the notes. You will be better able to see the differences in individuals. Include in the notes where you caught each fish and what the lighting was."

I'll take your word for it. I take a lot of stuff with me fishing, but a pencil and tablet never make the cut. Plus as soon as I catch a fish, I release and start fishing instantly.

 

[littlejuniata]

Just an awesome thread, should be pinned if that is the right term Beautiful pictures great discussion

I think trout can change color in less tan half an hour, it is a protective ability (herons and the like)

 

[jimmy22sept]

i was fishing and catching some brookies, i noticed the smaller ones werent as colorful as the bigger ones

 

[MKern]

jimmy,

this could be because they are not sexually mature, or that they are female -- especially this time of year.

 

[littlejuniata]

Check this vid, notice the color of the fish compared to it's eye

water was very muddy, the picture is in the shade, water was nearly yellow in the sun

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfO_Cv66t7c

for notes guys you can carry one of those tiny voice activitated recorders

 

[TheDude]

I have to confess that I didn't have the patience to read all three pages of posts after sal's War & Peace OP (j.k. dude), but I thought I'd add pictures anyway of a colorful brown from a small freestone brookie/brown stream. I have seen browns with brookie-like patterns on them in these little streams, the same "hemlock trout" look among the two species. When do you ever see blue halos on limestone browns? I call this one "a brown trying to be a brookie."

 

[salvelinusfontinalis]

Beautiful Fish Dude! 🙂

 

[DGC]

We know about sterile Tiger trout but when I see a Brown like that it makes me wonder about alternative ways of thinking about Brook/Brown offspring. I count at least 3 and maybe 4 red spots on the dorsal. You may have something very special going on there. Thanks very much for sharing and by all means keep them coming.

 

[troutbert]

DGC wrote:
We know about sterile Tiger trout but when I see a Brown like that it makes me wonder about alternative ways of thinking about Brook/Brown offspring. I count at least 3 and maybe 4 red spots on the dorsal. You may have something very special going on there. Thanks very much for sharing and by all means keep them coming.

That's a brown trout, not any sort of mix. Browns get very colorful like that in some streams. The brightest ones I've seen are in smallish freestone streams.

Blue halos and red spots are not helpful for identifying brookies vs browns, since both species have those markings.

Here is how you tell:

Brown trout. Dark spots on a light background

Brookies. Light spots on a dark background.

It's that simple. Once you get that, you will never confuse the two. Look back at the Dude's picture of the brown. Dark spots on a light background.

And at Salvelinus's avatar picture of the brookie. Light spots on a dark background. Note that there are no dark spots on the fish.

 

[TheDude]

I thought I'd add that these photos of the small stream brown I posted were not doctored in any way, because just looking at the thumbnails I personally think they have an odd look to them, like they've been enhanced or something. It's just the polarized filter on my camera that diffused the reflection of light, making it seem like the trout is superimposed or something. If anything, it looked more amazing in person.

My friend Dwight caught it, and he hollered for me to come over with the camera. I thought it was like no other brown I had ever seen, with the pronounced blue halos. I asked what the deal was, and he gave an answer just like troubert's. While I had never seen any like this, he said it can and does happen with browns on small brookie streams.

I'd imagine the characteristics of the brown I posted are long term adaptions, but I can say that I've seen other more immediate adaptions myself, such as when a creek is muddy like Penns can get, the browns can be very pale and washed out. Sal's "P.S." portion of the OP supports this.

 

[Maurice]

TheDude wrote:


My friend Dwight caught it, and he hollered for me to come over with the camera. I thought it was like no other brown I had ever seen, with the pronounced blue halos. I asked what the deal was, and he gave an answer just like troubert's. While I had never seen any like this, he said it can and does happen with browns on small brookie streams.

Ok, you do know that Troutbert is Dwight.....right? :-?

 

[Maurice]

troutbert wrote:
Here is how you tell:

Brown trout. Dark spots on a light background

Brookies. Light spots on a dark background.

Yes, all you have to remember is what Troutbert said about the spots. And that the brook trout will have the squiggly markings on the top side of the fish called vermiculation. Borwns don't have that.

with tiger trout, the vermiculation ALWAYS stays and ALWAYS travels farther down the trouts sides sometimes to the belly. And they don't have spots. light on drk, dark on light or even the signature red spots. Just the vermiculations.

With this said, I have caught and landed small trout in mountain freestones and after admiring and releasing not remembering what species they were. Not because they were indistinguishable but because I perhaps was so enamoured that I didn't take the time to see the distinguising characteristics.

Love IS blind sometimes.

 

[Fishidiot]

Beautiful brown Dude.

DGC,
The red spots on the dorsal are not that uncommon on wild browns, particularly smaller fish. I'd say I see these bright red dots (usually 2 or 3 of them) on the dorsals of brook and brown trout at about equal frequency. Also, the bright red edges on the caudel are seen on both wild brooks and browns although I seem to see this more on browns. One red color aspect that does (at least in my experience) differentiate them is the adipose fin. It is common to see bright red edges, or dots as in Dude's fish, on brown trout adipose fins but I have never seen this on brookie adipose fins.
Wild trout are never dull - literally or figuratively.

 

[troutbert]

Maurice wrote:

TheDude wrote:


My friend Dwight caught it, and he hollered for me to come over with the camera. I thought it was like no other brown I had ever seen, with the pronounced blue halos. I asked what the deal was, and he gave an answer just like troubert's. While I had never seen any like this, he said it can and does happen with browns on small brookie streams.

Ok, you do know that Troutbert is Dwight.....right? :-?

Hi Tom! I thought that trout looked familiar. 🙂
Nice photos!!!