Frack it.

[osprey]

Wish that someone like Gudgeonville could answer this but any answer is better that none. Can the act of hydraulick fracking cause significant seismic events?

 

[KeithS]

Search for "Ohio earthquakes".

 

[bikerfish]

the ohio quakes were caused by injecting the refuse crap back into old wells I believe, but it DID cause earthquakes, and some homes sustained some damage.

 

[barbless]

There's also a recent earthquake in Oklahoma that's been connected to fracking wastewater disposal into injection wells.

 

[JackM]

Hair triggers imo.

 

[osprey]

JackM........i seriously doubt that hair is responsible for causing seismic events.......seriously though i agree......just messing with something that could result in that kind of trouble is nuts.

 

[Gudgeonville]

Fracing does not cause earthquakes. There has been some research done, mostly by the federal government, that IF you inject enough fluids into a fault zone, then you MAY cause some movement along a fault plane that MIGHT cause temblors or small quakes. But, one must precisely locate the larger fault and then inject enough fluids to move those said faults. I do not believe that there is any definitive studies that implicate disposal wells in causing earthquakes. There is however plenty of circumstantial evidence being thrown around trying to implicate the shale industry. Earthquakes have been documented in the eastern and southern US but have not been studied as extensively as in the areas of known quakes.

 

[osprey]

Gudge........You don't adderess these quakes in Ohio that bikerfish and others referred to. I went and did a little investgation and there seems to be a consensus among those in the area that it WAS fracking that caused those.

 

[FarmerDave]

osprey wrote:
Gudge........You don't adderess these quakes in Ohio that bikerfish and others referred to. I went and did a little investgation and there seems to be a consensus among those in the area that it WAS fracking that caused those.

Mike, What Bikerfish said is true, cept I don't know about any damage to houses. Doesn't mean there there wasn't any, just that I don't know about it.

And it technically was not fracking, but disposal of waste water from PA, and maybe it was just an allergic reaction.;-)

As far as Gudge's comments go, it is quite possible that his comments are true as well. It may never be proven beyond a shadow of doubt one way or another. However, the circumstantial evidence in the case near Youngstown Ohio is quite significant.

The 12 Youngstown quakes, ranging in magnitude from 2.1 to 4.0, all occurred in a cluster less than a mile from the well and about 2,500 feet below the well itself, according to the Ohio Seismic Network, a division of the ODNR.

The quakes began in March 2011, just three months after the well went into operation. The last quake occurred on Dec. 31, a day after the ODNR has ordered - and then watched - the shutdown of the well. State geologists and regulators had inspected the well 35 times from April 26 to Dec. 15, trying to connect the quakes with the injections.

"Geologists believe it is very difficult for all conditions to be met to induce seismic events," the report noted. But "a number of coincidental circumstances appear to make a compelling argument for the recent Youngstown-area seismic events to have been induced."

I recommend reading the whole article.

link

 

[bikerfish]

I remember reading about cracked plaster and such. Not a big deal, but I'd be pretty pissed about it if it were my house!

 

[FarmerDave]

Me too.

 

[osprey]

I should use the term "natural gas extraction related" instead of fracking? The more i read the more it seems that it happens quite often......not just in Ohio but all over. bikerfish and Farmer.....could you feel the shakin where yinz live? We had one here last summer , i thought there was something wrong with my truck. It was a 3. sumpin. LOTSA drillin and pumpin going on here.

 

[FarmerDave]

osprey wrote:
I should use the term "natural gas extraction related" instead of fracking? The more i read the more it seems that it happens quite often......not just in Ohio but all over. bikerfish and Farmer.....could you feel the shakin where yinz live? We had one here last summer , i thought there was something wrong with my truck. It was a 3. sumpin. LOTSA drillin and pumpin going on here.

I'll admit, I silently chuckle when people complain about "fracking." Usually it is a sign of a lack of clue, but not always.

The issue of late is horizontal drilling combined with hydraulic fracturing. Hydraulic fracturing itself is not new. The first time it was done was 1949 (I think) and had been done over a million times since. Before that, they use dynamite and water for fracture a well to coax more out of it.

Hydraulic fracturing is done routinely all over the place. Yet it only recently has become a buzz word.


What's new is the horizontal drilling.

Although the wells near Johnstown were not "fracking" it is the same principle. Fluids forced down a hole at very high pressures. And I don't think those injection wells were horizontal.

I don't think any of the new wells in NE Ohio are the horizontal variety. Although there is M shale here, it isn't as thick and that has not been the target here (yet). There are more productive shales which are actually deeper here.

A vertical deep well was drilled within sight of my farm (a little over a mile). They got the bit stuck at about 6000 ft and gave up and moved up the road. There has been some drilling around here but not a lot, and none horizontal.

I didn't feel any earthquakes from Youngstown or any of the local stuff. But have recently been hearing and feeling some substantial blasting in the distance. No idea what it is from, and the sand and gravel pit in that direction is closed.

Everyone needs to remember that either we mine it or we grow it. That applies to everything.

 

[pcray1231]

Yeah, we've been hydro-fracking in PA since the 60's at least. What's new is horizontal drilling. Which greatly expands the volume of the hole. Which greatly expands the volumes of fluids used, and the pressures at which they are used.

From what I understand, yes, injection wells for the wastewater have been known to trigger earthquakes if they cross a fault. They try to avoid known faults. But there are a lot of faults and not all of them are known.

Also, you're not adding the energy for an earthquake. You're triggering it, meaning the energy was pre-existing. That earthquake WAS going to happen sometime. Perhaps a thousand years from now, but it was going to happen. I think it's a huge unknown on whether the injection wells result in smaller, more frequent events or larger, less frequent ones than would be otherwise natural. But one of the two would have to be true.

 

[FarmerDave]

Pennsyltuckians tend to look at Ohio as being flat and uninteresting. Well, it is to large extent, but wasn't always that way. There is actually a failed rift buried under a half mile of sedimentary rock in western Ohio, There was also part of a massive mountain range in the Eastern half that has eroded away. Look up Glenville Mountains. So, there are a lot of ancient faults buried under Ohio. In SE Ohio they are buried by about 2.5 miles of sedimentary rock.

Nothing to worry about, it's just interesting if you have rocks in your head.

Here is a brief paper that I found interesting.

ODNR Paper

 

[bikerfish]

cool, we would have a much shorter drive to the ocean, the lapetus!! wonder what swam around in THAT??
SE ohio is VERY hilly, and for us motorcicle folks, offers lots of very twisty and smooth roads to play on.

 

[FarmerDave]

Based on fossils I have found, my place was probably beach front at one time.

 

[pcray1231]

Well, so was ours.

Limestone is formed in DEEP oceans. So if you have limestone, that was once the ocean floor.

Sandstone is formed from, umm, beach sand. So if you have sandstone, that was once a beach.

 

[FarmerDave]

True. But beach front sounded so much better than mud flats.;-)

The fossils are in shale

 

[melvinp]

Nationwide sells seismic insurance.Thought about this a long time ago.